DEATH BATTLE Predictions: Goku vs. Superman

10/3/12 4:08pm

“It was on the 19th of the 9th month of the 12th year of the new millennium that the wise yet dim-witted strategist from the mystical land of Minnesota prophesied the end! Gather around lurkers of the internet as I tell the tale, of the almighty fan boy apocalypse!

In a distant past there existed two yonder lands, America and Japan. Though very different in culture the tales their people told had their similarities. The two most popular tales of these lands, the ones so great they brought about an entire medium of enjoyment for their youth were those of the America's legendary Supermanicus and Japan's warrior Gokules. The stories told of powerful beings, millions of times stronger than normal men, from distant worlds that span elsewhere in the skies, the inevitable arrival of these warriors on the land that is earth, and their eventual defense of the planet they grew to love.

In the earlier times neither individual was known outside of their own land, but then the world began to change. Its different people began to communicate. Followers of Gokules appeared in America and Supermanicus became known throughout the land for his ridiculous OP as shit strength!

Inevitably the question was raised, 'which one is stronger'? Silence fell upon reality when the question was asked. Men and women, intelligent men and women at that came forth with their answer, reasoning, and their own conviction, but it was all for naught. The great Wizard Wizardington and his partner Booma Stickema analyzed these answers and with all of them found flaws, all of them, EVERY SINGLE ONE WAS FLAWED! It was when looking at these flaws that his objective became clear. To create the flawless, indisputable theory of which character would truly and undoubtedly win a DEATH BATTLE!

The one they chose as the victor matters not. For whatever choice they chose, the enigmatic annihilation of existence would come and with it the agitated bitterness of the fanboys. Death and Shinigami had never feasted as much as they had on that day and Anubus had never had so many guests. Pabilsag's long duty as guardian of the sun had finally ended and Lampades' torch was relinquished from him!

But these ends were really only the beginning! Bile, flame, and ferocity flew freely among the warrior's followers! In the final dying words of Wizardington, he ushered with the last of his power, "The winner is...Hatred". Because no matter the winner, be it Supermanicus or Gokules that was the true winner, hate, HATRED CONSUMED ALL! But none listened. As time and reality warped around one another, there existed only two sole survivors...And they endlessly repeated the same two, archaic, worn-out phrases!

GOKU IS BETTER *Fan boy Rage*

NO SUPERMAN IS BETTER *Fan boy Rage*

This prophecy is not the delusions of a drugged-up, Northern American oracle, these events shall come. It was carved within the Dragon Balls and is written in kryptonite stone...”

This is the only image to effectively portray what this apocalypse would look like. For some reason all the survivors look like Willem Dafoe. (Image made by Sir Tobii)

Basically if there were ever something that epitomized the internet’s tendency to take seemingly insignificant, nerdy things and make them the MOST SERIOUS SHIT EVER this would be it! All of us here at The Official DEATH BATTLE Fan Blog know we won’t get out of this prediction blog without a death threat or two, regardless of who we predict will win, so we’re going all out! No opinions will be held back, all you will see is what we predict will be DEATH BATTLE’s cold, dead truth they present in their 25th, be all, end all DEATH BATTLE of Superman VS. Goku! And after we’ve done that you all can murder us to your heart’s content. All we can really do from that point forward is pray, PRAY this Fanboy apocalypse doesn’t come earlier than expected and that comments/debate remains respectful.

So get ready, and find some fucking tables to flip, BECAUSE IT’S TIME FOR A...

DEATH BATTLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

“WARNING: The writers of this blog were murdered shortly after this was posted on Screwattack. Visiting this article is considered highly dangerous and doing so might result in a fan boy related death. Enter at your own risk.”

Backstories

Goku

Son Goku was born Kakarot (Kakarotto in Japan) on the planet Vegeta. Like all Saiyan babies, he was sent to a planet to kill everyone there and have it ready to be sold. On Earth, he was found by Gohan (his Adopted Grandfather) and was raised by him. Goku was violent until he bumped his head. After that, he became a nice kid (Proving concussions can straighten a troubled kid out).

Goku soon began training and after Gohan's death, lived alone for a while until Bulma found him. That soon begins a long story where he learns about fighting under Master Roshi and King Kai, learns that he is an alien from a destroyed world, and discovers the legendary Super Saiyan Forms 1-4. He also died a couple of times but that really isn't important. Death has little meaning in the Dragonball universe.

Superman

Superman was born Kal-El on the alien planet Krypton. His parents became aware of Krypton's impending destruction and sent their son to Earth to escape their planet's doom. The spacecraft carrying young Kal-El landed on Earth where it was discovered by John and Martha Kent. They raised the baby as their own and named him Clark Kent.

After discovering his powers, thanks to his upbringing, Clark used them to help people in trouble and capture criminals. He soon moved to Metropolis to continue his hero-ing ways while using the Clark Kent disguise to work as a reporter at the Daily Planet. And thus begins the adventures of Superman.

Weapons

These two aren’t known for using weapons, but they do have access to such things. We doubt they’ll be brought up in the official Death Battle Analysis or the fight, however felt we should at least mention them.

Goku

While Goku prefers to use his hands, he does have access to two helpful tools. The Power Pole is a magical length changing staff that originally belonged to Korin, the proprietor of Korin Tower. It can extend to extreme lengths, capable of reaching the moon from Earth. It is very durable and unable to break, even against swords.

The Flying Nimbus is a magical, yellow cloud that serves as a way of transportation. It allows Goku (or anyone riding it as long as they have a pure heart) the ability to fly at high speeds without using energy. Sadly the speed of the Nimbus is not a match for the flight abilities Goku and the others are able to do later in DBZ. It is also destroyable, as Tambourine displayed.

At times, he carries around Senzu Beans which fully heals anyone if they eat one bean. It can even heal broken bones. Despite that, it is unable to regrow limbs or cure ailments. And we seriously doubt Death Battle will allow the usage of such an item.

Superman

Like Goku, Superman usually relies on his own abilities rather than weapons, but he does have access to technology that could aid him in battle. The Phantom Zone Projector is a device that can be used to transport prisoners and objects to and from the Phantom Zone, an interdimensional realm outside the normal space/time continuum which is a barren and insubstantial null area absent of any physical material.

He also (used to) have access to the Kryptonian War Suit, a suit that augmented their users with powerful weaponry and were operated by thought alone as well as allowed its operators to survive in extremely hostile environments such as radioactive wastelands. It was this suit that Superman used to recover faster from the supposed death he had against Doomsday. It was last seen being destroyed by Superman because Luthor was using it.

Skills and Abilities

Goku

Goku is a Ki user. Ki Energy is a tangible energy inside every living being, its major focus being in the center of the body. By drawing it out, a person is able to manipulate it and use it for performances outside the body. Ki can be used for many different techniques. Usually, the more concentrated the masses are, the more time the user requires to draw it out. When a fighter gathers ki, he is able to gain enhanced strength, speed, endurance, and can increase the power of their attacks to inflict greater damage to opponents.

Using Ki, Goku is capable of executing many projectile attacks. His signature attack is the Kamehameha Wave, a big beam of energy of various size. While it is more known for being a beam fired from his hands, it has numerous uses. He can bend the direction, fire it from his feet to use as a propulsion, and put in a sphere form that can be launched whenever he wishes. It is the most versatile of his Ki Techniques.

His most powerful move is the Spirit Bomb, a huge sphere of energy from all life willing to support it. If charged enough, it can destroy an entire planet. Sadly, the move requires the user to stand perfectly still while holding his hands above his head for a long period of time. Its success rate is also very low and it can be deflected by a pure heart.

Other Ki attacks Goku has used include regular Ki Blasts, Invisible Eye Blasts, Destructo Disks (Krillin's Technique), and the Solar Flare (Tien's Technique). With the exception of the Ki Blasts, Goku rarely uses these techniques over his own. It’s also worth mentioning he can not control the Destructo Disk like Frieza or Cell can.

Goku's speed is argued to be Faster than Light, but there are no feats that can confirm that to be true or not (only a dubbing mistake mentions speed of light as the updated Kai and the Manga do not mention it). Despite that, he very easily falls into hyper sonic ranges like Vegeta and is capable of using his speed to help him in battle. The After Image Technique is a move that, living up to it's namesake, creates numbers of After Images. This causes the opponent to hit nothing but air leaving an opening for the user. It can be countered with another After Image though.

Goku's fastest technique is Instant Transmission. It allows him to instantly teleport from one place to another as long as he can feel someone's Ki. He can combine this technique with the Kamehameha and the Spirit Bomb to surprise his opponent with an attack suddenly up close. This technique also allows Goku to visit Other Worlds and back in the blink of an eye.

Goku has two ways to power up. The first is Kaio-ken, a technique taught to him by King Kai. It multiplies the user's Ki for a certain amount of time making them able to deliver more damaging attacks to their opponents. He can increase it to a multiple up to x20, but if used too much it could seriously damage the body of the user or worse. Sadly, as soon as Goku discovered the ability to go Super Saiyan, Kaio-ken lost it's use.

Goku has the ability to go Super Saiyan 1-4. Each Super Saiyan form increases Goku's power by a great deal per transformation and can be used alongside Kaio-ken. At Super Saiyan 1, he can sustain it naturally as if he wasn't even trying. But when going to Super Saiyan 3 and 4, the energy needed to maintain it increases. While SS4 uses less energy than SS3, once depleted the user will revert back to normal.

Goku is also an expert in Martial Arts and has hand to hand techniques including the Hasshu-ken (making him seem to have eight arms), Crazy Fist (think Drunken Fist except he acts like a dog or a monkey), the Jan Ken (A Rock, Paper and Scissor style attack), and Akuma's personal favorite fighting technique, the Full Nelson. His Ki energy is capable of destroying a planet’s core, thus blowing up the planet. While at SS4, his physical strength shows him capable of lifting a building.

In case you were wondering...

One of the most hotly debated elements of this fight is whether or not Goku’s Ki attacks qualify as ‘magic’, which Superman has a known vulnerability to. We believe this post on Anime Vice said it best. “Ki is NOT magic at least in the DB Universe. Magic usually draws power from its surrounding or some sort of source/artifact. Ki is 100% inner spirit/energy. Kami & Piccolo use magic to create clothing, ETC. However Kami & Piccolo use Ki to fly and fight. Babadi has powerful magic, however has very weak Ki.”

What evidence do we have that suggests Ki/Chi are different from regular magic in the Dragonball universe? As the quote states, there are an assortment of characters such as Old Kai, Babadi, and Supreme Kai who couldn’t come close to matching a fighter like Goku in strength/Ki energy, yet are capable of other feats Goku has never been shown to be capable of doing. One of these abilities is materializing objects (a block of Katchin and a crystal orb in the two Kai’s case) out of thin air, an act that falls far more closely into the traditional idea of ‘magic’.

We’ll also point out that Dragonball Wikia has a section exclusively dedicated to witches, wizards, and practitioners of magic a section Goku cannot be found in. Because there is a clear difference between what these beings can do and what Goku can do and because it has never been said that Ki attacks have magical properties, it’s very obvious Ki is not magical, leaving Goku with the Power Pole as his only real magic-based attack. Even if Goku’s attacks were magic it wouldn’t guarantee victory, Superman has gone toe to toe against characters like Captain Marvel who rank among some of the mightiest magic users in comic book history.

Superman

Using Wikipedia's "Complete list" section of "Powers and abilities of Superman", we have limited Superman’s abilities to *INHALES* Superhuman Strength, Invulnerability, Healing Factor, Flight, Superhuman Speed, X-Ray Vision, Heat Vision, Super-human Breath (Such as the well known Freeze Breath), Superhuman Hearing, Superhuman Vision, Superhuman Olfaction, Eidetic Memory, Intelligence and a Master Combatant. But because multiple authors have written for Superman, there has an been influx in abilities.

The strongest Superman has shown (All Stars) him lifting 200 Quintillion Tons with simply one arm (his left). He has shown to shatter various metals and materials apart with one punch and in a comic moved numerous planets around with ease. Even with Post-Crisis Superman they have shown him capable of lifting a building with the same difficulty Super Saiyan 4 Goku has shown.

His Speed is confirmed to be at light speed. That means he can move from one point to another virtually instantly. And this is a feat in the post Crisis Superman. While others have argued that is only a case of movement speed and not fighting speed, we have deduced this as untrue. There are numerous feats of him reflecting light beams of kryptonite back at his opponent as well as moving his molecules fast enough to be able to have attacks go through him. No smoke screen, no movement speed, just molecule speed. And yes, he can punch fast.

Heat Vision is also impressive. It is solar energy that comes from his eyes. He can make them invisible or make it extremely hot. Thanks to years of practice, he can use it to cut with surgical precision even at the microscopic level (also see Superman Vs the Elite fight). It is also able to be a concussive force instead of heat. At its most powerful, it can cut an entire planet in half and reignite the sun. The sun that has been used to defeat numerous DBZ villains in the movies, though like Dragonball GT a lot of fans don’t consider those canon.

Superman’s most impressive ability is his Invulnerability. The only way around this is to have Kryptonite (his weakness), Magic (his Invulnerability can’t counter this), be exposed to a Red Sun for a long period of time (his powers derive from a Yellow Sun), or being of Krytonian decent. If you are strong enough, you can knock Superman around, but a killing blow needs one of the four requirements above. And even with that, Superman has come back from the dead.

This is thanks to his healing factor, the few instances he is severely hurt he can recover. It took him awhile for him to come back from the dead, but according to Madguitaris, he survived this by taking the solar energy from plants to heal himself after (with kryptonite exposure) a nuclear explosion and several lightning strikes. And these feats are those done post crisis. Imagine what sort of feats Pre-Crisis Superman had. And thanks to metabro, Superman has shown to survive an exploding Star, something that can destroy galaxies.

So if he is so powerful why doesn’t he show it all the time. Two reasons. First, would you be interested in buying a comic where there is literally nothing that can stop the main character? If you said yes, we have a bunch of fan fictions for you Mary Sue lovers. The other reason is best explained in Justice League Unlimited .

Armor

Goku

Goku makes use of weighted clothes. clothes that are fitted with built-in weights to make them heavier than ordinary clothes. He uses them in Dragonball and early in DBZ to hold him back until he needs to go out fully. But since the introduction of Transformations, they don't really do that job anymore. As the Abridged series has stated, "that concept has lost its meaning".

So essentially, he’s wearing just a regular Turtle School Uniform. Nothing that holds him back or increase his defenses.

Superman

According to the Smallville Wiki in the "In the comics" section, Superman’s suit was made out of the blanket he had as a child, and still retained the invulnerability properties Clark has. It was Martha's sewing and Clark's Heat Vision that created the suit. Then again in Lois and Clark: the New Adventures of Superman, the suit was basically a regular costume that was only indestructible when Superman was wearing it.

We think it’s only fair for it to be the L&C version because having an invulnerability outfit with invulnerability is just overkill.

Weaknesses

Goku

Despite how strong of a Saiyan Goku is, he is still bound by the limits of a normal being to some degree. He still needs to eat, breath, and sleep to keep himself at maximum efficiency. He can still be burnt, become sick, and while like Vegeta he can survive in outer-atmospheres for extended periods of time, it is possible for him to eventually suffocate from a lack of oxygen. Losing too much energy can also tire him out.

Superman

Superman has three main weaknesses: being exposed to Kryptonite, being exposed to a red sun, and magic. There is a 4th weakness not known by many. That is being of Kryptonian decent. Kryptonians exposed to the yellow sun gain the same attributes as Superman, meaning they are on equal ground. That means if you were stronger than him on Kryton, you’re stronger than him on Earth. This is how Doomsday was able to kill Superman temporarily.

Goku

Advantages

Is a better trained fighter than Superman.
Is a more interesting character.
Has numerous forms
Energy can destroy a planet’s core (thus blowing up the planet)
Instant Transmission can help him keep up

Disadvantages

Some of the higher feats Goku supporters believe he is capable of do not have any visual evidence to back them up.
Despite being an alien, is still bound by the limitations of a human in certain ways.
Has no knowledge of and little access to Superman’s weaknesses
Has to use Dragonball GT.
Not the planet buster Kid Buu is (who engulf the planet with his power)
Most victories were due to plot shielding.
The more powerful attacks require a charge up time.
Spirit Bomb is useless (Superman is pure hearted, thus able to reflect it. Not to mention the charge time to it is ridiculous.)
Many of the aforementioned forms Goku can attain require large reserves of energy to be maintained.

Superman

Advantages

Confirmed Faster than Light feats.
Invulnerability has proven he can survive DBZ attacks (See Vegeta Vs Shadow)
Is smarter than Goku
Depending on which incarnation, is physically as strong or stronger than Goku in Super Saiyan 4.
Super Breath and Laser vision can match if not surpass Goku’s Ki attacks.
Does not need to use large reserves of energy to stay powerful

Disadvantages

While being a trained fighter, is not as well trained as Goku.
Tends to hold back (likely will be removed for the fight)
Is a boring character in terms of fighting.

Verdicts

AkumaTH

I’ve made a prediction blog about this match before, trying in vain to hopefully sway the creators of Death Battle to do a different match. I’ve been in this debate before numerous times. Too many to count. This fight was the biggest on Factpile, even having the subject closed because those who just can’t accept the results kept trying to convince those in vain. And that result is that Superman wins, pre or post Crisis.

The reason is two folds. The first is the main thing every debate and research needs to have, feats. People for Goku like to use math based on some supposed system, ignoring the fact that the increases don’t always add up. Like Goku’s speed, trying to use Gotenks circling the globe despite the manga showing it differently from the anime. Whereas we know Superman is light speed and beyond since we know that speed is required to escape a black hole.

The second reason is the stories they tell. With Goku, it is a story about how our hero can defeat the odds. With Superman, it is a story about one man with so much power not living up to absolute power corrupting. Goku was made to have strengths and weaknesses so we can be kept wondering if he can overcome the odds or not. Superman was made so people could look up to him. Quite frankly, as a fighter Superman is broken.

There are a lot of better matches for them that would be INFINITELY times better than Superman Vs Goku. Goku could be facing Kenshiro, a fellow Anime character known for great strength and have the ability to synch ki. Asura, another guy with freaky feats. Heck, Mario (who has destroyed the sun and survived a universe destroying explosion) would be a better fight.

As for Superman, Silver Surfer is as broken as he is and would provide a better fight. If you want to keep it in DBZ, Gohan and Majin Buu would have been better choices, as being magically powered could get through Superman’s Invulnerability. But Goku Vs Superman is overdone and shouldn’t even be part of Death Battle. I’m hoping they’re really trolling us and end it like how it would really happen.

Because I doubt even they are strong enough to force these two to fight each other.

LousyTactician

The biggest problem facing anyone arguing in Goku’s favor with ‘Power-level measurements’ is the measurements never come out right. Trying to create a flawless system of measurement using power-levels is very much the Dragonball equivalent of trying to make a logical timeline out of the Zelda franchise (Yes I know Nintendo technically released a complete timeline, shut-up! That hasn’t stopped Zelda fans from pointing out inconsistencies with it). It will never happen because just like how none of Zelda’s developers thought deeply about the Zelda timeline before fans asked about it, power-levels were something Akira Toriyama only used early on in the franchise and quickly gave them up when Goku and the rest of the Z-Warriors started getting buffed to such ridiculous levels the measurements became moot. Be honest DBZ fans, how often were power-levels used past the Frieza saga?

I don’t entirely begrudge the fans that try to make sense of the system, but if some of the measurements these people made were valid the later sagas of Dragonball Z should have ended with a lot more galaxies and maybe a universe or two destroyed not just a few measly planets. This has always been the trouble that comes with evaluating Dragonball Z characters. According to calculations they’re supposed to have even more insane power than what they show, but they never show it, even when there is no reason for them to hold back like Superman has to in the majority of his fights.

Most Dragonball Z fighting is over-the-top flashy martial arts. While this makes the fights entertaining, it leaves much to be desired in terms of actual feats, because let’s face it, determining how fast one very flashy punch is to another is tough to do. A lot of stuff gets destroyed in the process of this fighting, but for what large scale destructive feats there are, none of them match what Superman has done pre-crisis and I'd argue post-crisis as well.

Even if we were to assume later incarnations of Super Saiyan multiply a Saiyan’s power by 50 like the first Super Saiyan form (it is the most sensible measurement basis for ‘power-levels’ I’ve seen) that still leaves Goku a few pegs below Superman’s sheer ridiculous strength and speed and unlike Superman, Goku can only keep up that intense power for a limited amount of time (in Super Saiyan 3 and 4 forms at least).

*Sigh* these verdicts are the ones I hate giving the most because someone is inevitably going to shout bias. Let me be the one to admit, I could be considered biased…Insanely biased towards Goku and the Dragonball Z franchise. Dragonball Z more or less defined my childhood. How much did it define my childhood? When I was 11 I spent every day after school rushing home to watch Dragonball Z and would always play-fight with my brothers while shouting DBZ moves shortly after that (something I feel sort of stupid for doing looking back on it). If there was a reasonable argument to be made in Goku’s favor I would be using it and considering we all agreed to (jokingly) put, “Is a more interesting character” as one of Goku’s advantages I’d say I’m not the only one with this mindset.

A lot of this blog was spent hyping the match, but truthfully most of that hype comes from the small, feeble hope I and I think the rest of the team has that this match will bring an end to the debate (it won’t). I can’t imagine DEATH BATTLE doing a match as one-sided as this if it wasn’t the most recommended fight they’ve ever had. Ben stated on a podcast that every analysis of Superman VS. Goku that he has seen had a flaw to it.

I’m not sure how many analyses he has read or how flawed he considers them to be, but it’s interesting to hear and at least gives me hope that Wiz and Boomstick will bring an element to the match that hasn’t been discussed by us or any other analyzers. As far as this fight goes right now however, Superman VS. Goku has been discussed everywhere from Factpile to Comicvine to the Official Battle Dome. Most of them inevitably chose Superman as the winner and that is who I believe will be the victor in the next DEATH BATTLE.

Image by TPollockJR

At least we’ll all have some awesome artwork to fondly look back on when this match comes to a close.

SamuraiSpartan7000

At first glance, this fight sounds like the perfect match up. You have the icon of American comic book superheroes pitted against the most widely recognized figure of Japanese manga and anime in an epic duel to the death.

But once you start looking at the details a little bit more closely and start considering the cold hard logic, and you are given what I believe is an unfair fight.

Superman will not win because he is invincible, because Goku seems just as invulnerable, Superman will not win over strength, because at first glance Goku seems like he can match that, and he will not win over pure speed as Goku has showcased incredibly fast displays of agility as well.

What it really comes down to, and no matter how flawed or inconsistent some of these factors might be, it is Superman's feats that truly make him the victor of the fight. While he has a stated weakness to magic, which Goku can be interpreted as having, and he has been proven to be vulnerable to opponents that equal or surpass his physical strength like Darkseid, Doomsday, or Shazam, none of these weaknesses ever seem to remove the fact that Superman has been able to defy the odds every single time. And in terms of year by year history Goku has died much more frequently than Superman.

Consider the following, Superman can move planets across systems, move fast enough around them to reverse their path through time, has accidentally wiped out entire cosmic systems, has held back black holes, and has defeated beings of equal power such as Shazam who are explicitly described as having magical powers in which he has a well known vulnerability to.

Mind you that Shazam himself has gone up against the likes of Spectre, an embodiment of God’s all powerful vengeance and is described as the most powerful and most magically gifted mortal in Earth Prime. Surely if Superman can defeat him in a one on one fight, he should be more than capable of defeating one such as Goku, even if his ki is described as magical.

In other feats and or abilities, bringing Superman close to death just puts him in a comatose state of healing, he can travel the length of entire solar systems in an instant, reverse time if he needs to, and is practically unkillable in the presence of his source of power, the yellow sun.

Unlike Goku, Superman relies on a practically limitless source of energy that is never destroyed or depleted when absorbed. Goku must siphon ki energy from his surroundings which results in the death the living things around him thus eliminating any chance of reusing their power.

And while I have not read many of the blogs that plea in Goku's defense, the sheer existence of such articles and the lack of any in Superman's favor tells me that many know how strong the arguments for Superman really are and how much fan boy protection is needed to defend Goku's chances of winning.

I was really hoping we all wouldn't be as one sided on a fight of this particular level of debate, but if you do your homework, I'm sure all of you will reach the same conclusions. While I think Superman had a little bit more depth at one point than most people give him credit for, I’m in complete agreement with my colleagues that Goku is just a little bit more interesting as a character.

But like it has been said several times before, DEATH BATTLE isn’t a popularity contest. If that was the case, I would have casted my vote to see Mike Haggar pile-drive Zangief into oblivion, Chun-Li woop Mai’s plump little ass, and Zelda to rip Peach a new one. DEATH BATTLE isn’t here to cater to my wishes just as much as it’s not here to cater to yours.

Superman won’t win just because Vegeta, a Dragonball Z character won a previous fight, or the fact that they have to make amends for Wonder Woman losing to Rogue, or that Ben and Chad are just secret Superman fanboys.

The fact stands that Superman is just one the most broken and insanely OP characters mythology has ever produced. You could make a similar argument for Goku, but at least he has understandable limits. Superman on the other hand, limits are all but moot. In fact, writers of Superman comics have struggled for years just trying to make Superman seem like he can be convincingly challenged, or at the least a bit of an interesting character because he is so OP. So no matter which way you look at it, Goku just can’t match that same level of power simply because he can’t match that same level of a broken character.

That having been placed on my conscious, I have spent the past few weeks preparing my mind, body, and soul for the uncontrollable and unforgiving wrath of the fan boy war, so I'm ready to say this now....

I bravely place my bets on Superman.

psb123

Superman is incredibly broken compared to Goku. He is more durable, he is physically stronger, he is much faster, and he has a much more reliable source of energy. As the rest of the team has stated these factors make this fight seem completely one-sided in Supermans favor. However, the key word in that statement is “seem”. I initially thought that the fight would be completely unfair and one-sided in Supermans favor. But thanks to a point brought up in the comments on g1 UltimateSaiyan’s blog about why he thinks Goku would win, I think Goku may actually have more of a chance than I initially thought.

According to this point left by g1 Kenshiro3, Superman would be weak to Goku’s Ki as it is Supernatural and Superman is weak to the Supernatural. Some of you may a bit confused by that as we didn’t mention the Supernatural in Superman’s weaknesses. However we did list his weakness to magic and magic itself is supernatural.

I thank the lord for Wikipedia right now. The definition of Supernatural is something that is not subject to the laws of nature or if you want a more figurative definition, something that is said to exist above and beyond nature. An example of this can be found in the history of the Christian Religion. When Jesus was on Earth after being born as Mary’s child, when he grew up to be an adult he at one point in his earthly life was able to walk on water, a feat that is an example of the supernatural.

Before we get into why Ki does or does not classify as supernatural let’s go back to the definition of the supernatural. “something that is not subject to the laws of nature”. With this in mind, let’s take a look at what the laws of nature are.

A law of nature, also known as a physical law or scientific law is a theoretical principle deduced from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by the statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present.

Ki in the Dragonball universe is not based off of Qi according to Chinese Mythology it IS Qi according to Chinese Mythology as Qi written in Japanese is Ki. In Chinese Mythology Qi is believed to be the Flow of energy that sustains living beings, AKA as described by the Chinese, Life Force. The chinese believed that Qi permeated to everything and linked their surroundings together. By understanding it’s rhythm and flow the Chinese believed they could guide exercises and treatments to provide stability and longevity.

Also in Chinese Mythology Qi can be utilized by Martial Artists to be applied in combat. When Qi is being directed by ones will it is known as Neijing.

Now whether or not Qi is real is a matter of belief but it clearly exists within the Dragonball Universe. Elements of Qi have also been used in western pop culture such as the Force in Star Wars, something that is clearly supernatural.

With all of this knowledge now under my belt I feel I can safely assume the Ki is in fact, supernatural.

However like Magic, which is also Supernatural, Superman is weak to it, but has defeated foes that are efficient with it. He did however lose to Captain Marvel even with the help of Batman as Captain Marvel is a potent magic user. However Superman also lost because Captain Marvel is just as broken as he is with light speed, even greater endurance to the point of where he can go for long periods without food or sleep, and strength that matches Supermans.

Goku may be able to get through Superman’s invulnerability with Ki but Physical attacks are still useless. The big question that I feel needs to be answered in deciding who would win between Goku and Superman is how well Goku’s Ki matches up to Captain Marvel’s Magic. Captain Marvel’s Magic mainly empowers him to essentially almost more broken than Superman in strength, speed, and endurance and gives him accelerated healing.

However Superman has survived Magic from elder gods and Captain Marvels Powers are granted to him by Greek gods. Goku’s Ki really can’t match that.

Goku’s Ki being Supernatural does make me question how one-sided this fight will actually be but in the end. I still have to say that Superman will emerge victorious due to how broken he is.

...Well...That wraps up this prediction blog now if you’ll excuse us, we’ve got an apocalypse to prepare for. Please keep all comments/arguments respectful.

» Tagged In: #DC Comics, #Death Battle, #dragon ball, #dragon ball gt, #dragon ball z, #Dragonball, #dragonball gt, #dragonball z, #Goku, #superman

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g1 DISCUSSIONS

AkumaTh

October 3, 2012 - 7:57pm

I don't think there will be. Superman has a huge history to use and despite my two years of research for the debate and continuing study for a third, there's still stuff undiscovered that makes him more impressive. The only factor that could change for Goku's favor is if they pick a specific Superman to use that doesn't have these feats, like the Animated Series one.

Flapperdoodle

October 3, 2012 - 7:01pm

I dunno. DB research ain't my deal, so I could care less about who could destroy more planets. I am rooting for Superman cause I like him more as a character and I grew up on him more than Goku.

That said, these blogs are fantastic. Very nice work.

Canadian Brony

October 3, 2012 - 6:09pm

DBZ fanboy rage in 3.. 2..1..

As much as I like Goku more, I just see Superman winning no matter what. He's just too OP, even for Goku.

ultraguy

October 3, 2012 - 6:04pm

You guys must have really put the pedal to the medal to get this blog done so quickly. Anyway while i do think you are underestimating goku a little (he could easily destroy planets and Gotenks was just as fast in the manga as in the anime), i do have to reluctantly agree with your verdict. One thing though Ben and Wiz have apparently been"mathing the shit out of this death battle" and it's very possible they may be trying to calculate some of Goku's feats in a more official way. Considering that and the fact that superman is actually more inconsistant in power, is more prone to interpretation between people and has occasional plot shielding himself, it may have been better to wait until after the official analyse videos came to out release a prediction blog(just in case Ben uncovered anything important).I mean obviously the verdict will probably still be the same in the official video anyway, but you never know what little things could change the outcome. On another note good luck dealing with the fan rage and inevitable flood of comment that will invade the comments section(get ready to see pages and pages of half-baked calculations and power level comments).

LousyTactician

October 3, 2012 - 6:13pm

"he could easily destroy planets"

We agree that he very safely falls into planet buster territory.

"Considering that and the fact that superman is actually more inconsistant in power, is more prone to interpretation between people and has occasional plot shielding himself, it may have been better to wait until after the official analyse videos came to out release a prediction blog(just in case Ben uncovered anything important)"

Superman's powers have fluctuated a lot from incarnation to incarnation, but I personally have never found his power that inconsistent when looking at most single interpretations (or at least non-Silver age interpretations). Just ridiculous and OP.

But who knows? Wiz and Boomstick may very well find something we didn't, we after all are just theorizing what their verdict will be.

"(get ready to see pages and pages of half-baked calculations and power level comments)."

I really, really, REALLY hope that does not happen.

ultraguy

October 3, 2012 - 7:13pm

Yeah, silver age superman in particular was what i meant when i brought up the inconsistancy thing(with the writing being all over the place and with some people arguing those comics should not be analysed due to their apocryphal nature). Personally i don't think it matters much either way. Anyway we have seen interesting turn arounds due to math calculations(like link vs cloud) so i thought maybe i would mention it.

Also i'm sorry to tell you, but the fan boys are going to come and their's nothing we can do to prevent their arrival(God helps us, god help us all).

LousyTactician

October 3, 2012 - 10:20pm

"turn arounds due to math calculations(like link vs cloud) so i thought maybe i would mention it."

Yeah, but the thing about the calculation used in the Cloud VS. Link match is that calculation was based off a visual feat Link very clearly did in one of his games. The ones that buff Goku using power level calculations don't have those visual feats to back up their arguments for the most part at least.

ultraguy

October 3, 2012 - 11:10pm

I wasn't really thinking about using power levels or anything else in particular. I was thinking more along the lines of evaluating each of goku's feats in the series one by one, and maybe calculating the force needed to do those feats individually with real world math.(just so we can get a better idea of what goku is capable of).For example if the pressure/force of an explosion big enough to destroy the earth or send people into the sun, equals the force of superman's physical strikes. I also want to get a number for exactly how much slower Goku is than superman(which honestly is best measured by gotenks flying around the world feat).I just figured that since there are so many episodes,manga volumes and other media to go through, it would be easy to overlook something. Of course like i said you guys are probably right with your verdicts, and i actually said the battle would end in a similar way a few months ago.Overall I'm kinda just being nitpicky about details(and maybe slightly curious about what can be found).I'm not exactly trying to make an argument for Goku or anything.

Icipall

October 3, 2012 - 5:37pm

I agree that Superman really is broken and OP, but I still hope that Goku would win.

Gzerbles

December 29, 2012 - 4:49am

Superman, despite all inconsistencies, is at least the speed of light in flight and combat. In certain cases he has been proven to be faster than the speed of thought; meaning that by the time chosen to react to his attack, it already hits. If he's allowed to be faster than light, then he can literally hit any amount of times before being sensed.

This isn't even close to being the most OP he's been. At his weakest, he can break the unbreakable and survive multiple nuclear blasts at point blank. That's right; without the sun to power him up. If a yellow sun exists, then the fight is over before it starts. At his strongest, he could wave Gods out of existence, move stars effortlessly, escape multiple black holes used in the ultimate way to be inescapable by sheer amounts of "goes fast" and "is strong".

That means that for Goku to get a chance, he would have to take the fight to a place without a sun, draw Superman out to waste his power reserves, and do so while not getting hit. Only then go SS4, and keep at close range where Superman can't really abuse his flight speed and heat vision, and hope that his superior training will finish Superman off before his energy runs out; knowing Superman's endurance (basically impossible to kill), that seems extremely unlikely. And this is all under the assumption that Superman fights dumb and doesn't abuse the shit out of his many powers, or takes the fight to some place with a sun. Or into a sun, which will probably burn Goku but make Superman stronger.

The problem is that Goku cannot sustain SS4 indefinitely. If he could, then I'd say he's got a chance. But the bottom line is that he'll run out of energy before Superman does. And then Superman will punch him so hard that his atoms scatter.