DEATH BATTLE Predictions: Terminator VS. Robocop
Due to scheduling difficulties, several ODBFB members haven’t had the time to perform enough research to make a verdict, and as such won’t be writing one in this prediction blog. Keep in mind this doesn’t mean any of them will stop making predictions, or doing research, they’ll simply do it when they can.
Also, the Thumbnail art is credited to HectorEnriquez (Link)
Greetings Screwattack g1s and random internet dwellers, the next fight is itching to go, and it will be quite the fight indeed. It looks like DEATH BATTLE has grown tired of yet another common fan-request, because this DEATH BATTLE has been requested to well...Death. Regardless, it’s sure to be a fun ride, and as per-usual all of us here (or rather 5 of the 7 of us here) are ready to predict where this ride will take us. Get ready because, IT’S TIME FOR A DEATH BATTLE!
Height: 6’2 (seeing as how Arnold is 6’2)
Weight: We have yet to see it specified, but pretty heavy. The endoskeleton alone weighs over 200 kilograms.
The Terminator, specifically the T-850, is a Skynet creation designed to infiltrate the Resistance. Before then, the T-600s were easily spotted by the Resistance due to their rubber skin. To counter this, they created the T-800 Series: a cybernetic organism, with living tissue over a hyperalloy endoskeleton...Because apparently nobody finds a 6 foot, hulking, man with an Austrian accent to be in anyway suspicious. This allowed them to infiltrate the Resistance more easily, and be able to travel back in time.
The T-850 is a more advanced version of the T-800 with upgraded files, a toughened endoskeleton, stronger joints and hydraulics, limited skin regeneration, reboot ability, data evaluation, more resistance to plasma weaponry, ETC. They are essentially more effective Terminators. Despite these improvements, both the T-800 and T-850 have been captured and reprogrammed by the Resistance on several occasions. In a clever twist, this turned the villain of the first film into the hero of the 2nd film and on.
The second time he was sent back into the past to ensure John Connor and Katherine Brewster's survival as well as prevent the T-X Terminatrix from completing its objective. The Governator then made another return in the events of Rise of the Machines, and Salvation.
In case you were wondering...
It’s well established the T-800 and T-850 are different models with different capabilities. For this fight we’re using the T-850 since it’s the most powerful, but seeing as how the T-850 is just a better T-800, the feats from both are applicable.
Height: Around 6 ft (the original actor who portrayed Robocop, Peter Weller, is 5' 10¾ according to IMDB. Give a few inches due to the bulky suit.)
Weight: Around 300 lbs.
Alex J. Murphy was a strong-willed, good-hearted man of the law, until one day he was transferred to a new police precinct run by the massive mega-corporation, Omni Consumer Products in Old Detroit. There he and his partner were sent to go after a group of thugs, who brutally murdered him. His dying corpse was then used as a guinea pig for one of Omni-Corp’s experiments, turning him into the cybernetic Robocop, a futuristic officer programmed to uphold the law under 3 directives, “Serve the public trust, Protect the innocent, and Uphold the law”. At first it seemed every bit of Murphy's humanity had been wiped away, but his memories gradually came back to him, leading him to both crack down on crime, and seek the ‘cop killers’ who made him Robocop in the first place.
It was then that he learned the thugs worked for Omni-Consumer Product’s vice president, Dick Jones, and he sought to arrest him, but failed due to a hidden fourth directive that prevented him from acting against any higher ups in Omni-Corp. However, he went on to defeat Jones’ thugs, who were released and armed with Cobra Assault rifles (very, very destructive guns), and later Jones himself, after proving his interactions with illicit crime, and removing him from his position as vice president.
Robocop has seen an assortment of other stories, including a comic crossover with the Terminator franchise, but this is how the original (and best) story goes. He also had some (really bad) movie sequels, which gave him an assortment of new power-ups and upgrades.
In case you were wondering...
Yes, the upgrades and weapons Robocop uses in the later films, and spin-off material will be included in this fight, despite many of said later films being pretty awful.
The Govenator has used a variety of weapons throughout the series. Instead of listing them all, we’ll provide links to the Internet Movie Firearms Data Base (Terminator 1, 2, 3, and Salvation), and briefly talk about the key ones, just in case anyone’s too lazy to read up in the links provided.
In the future, those working for Skynet (all machines) get access to plasma based weapons. The Westinghouse M-27 Phased Plasma Pulse Rifle generates blasts in the 40 watt range. The General Dynamics RBS-80 Phased Plasma Pulse Gun is a bigger version of that. How much more powerful it is is unknown. The Seeker is a floating mine used by Skynet that locks onto a target and detonates on impact. And the Spider Mine is a small spider-shaped mine which grips onto its victim and explodes. There would be a few problems with the T-850 using these in a fight though.
Terminator rules state non-organic materials can not go back in time. If there were any opportunity in which Robocop and the T-850 would logically fight, it would almost be guaranteed to involve the Terminator traveling back in time to Robocop’s era in some way. Not only that, but the Terminator we’re taking these feats from has never technically used any of these futuristic weapons. So we doubt they will be part of this DEATH BATTLE, and that the T-850 will be using the weapons he typically finds in our present time.
Those current-era weapons consist of the AMT Hardballer, his primary handgun, and the one he used in the original Terminator when hunting down Sarah Connor that he got from a pawn shop. It fires standard .45 caliber bullets and has a scope, but we’ve never seen the Terminator use it at any point throughout the series, presumably because his technologically enhanced aim makes it so he doesn’t need it. In Terminator 2, he used an Armalite AR-18, which fires 5.56x45mm ammo at 750 rounds per-minute, at a muzzle velocity of 991 meters per second. He used an M79 grenade launcher in this beauty of a scene. Said grenade launcher fires projectiles as far as 350 meters.
There are several types of shotguns used by the Terminator. These include the Winchester Lever Action Shotgun, which fires either 10 or 12-gauge shotgun shells, and holds up to 5 rounds in its chamber, and the SPAS-12, a much more effective, 12-gauge shotgun, that is either semi-automatic, or pump action, with a maximum range of 150 feet. Among the heavier weapons he has used, the Terminator has a Minigun that fires anywhere between 4000 and 6000 rounds per-minute. He used a 9mm Uzi to kill one of his victims in the original Terminator, a submachine gun that fires 600 rounds per minute. Lastly, the Type 69 RPG fires single anti-tank missiles as far as 1000 yards.
Obviously there are more weapons he has used, but the key thing to remember is the Terminator has to find these weapons in time. Luckily he always manages to find these weapons, and clothing for that matter, whenever he makes the jump to the present.
Robocop’s first and foremost weapon is the Auto-9, a near-cartoonishly oversized handgun he stores in a compartment located within his right limb, that fires in bursts of 3 rounds per-shot. In some portrayals Robocop could quickly access extra ammo for the weapon via his right arm. Thanks to built in sensors, the gun will not fire unless it is Robocop who is using it, and later media had additional ammo-types, including non-lethal, flechette, explosive, and armor-piercing rounds capable of penetrating his own armor. The Gunarm is an attachable firearm Murphy can replace his left hand with. It can fire a machine gun that uses 9mm ammo, a flamethrower that can presumably reach temperatures exceeding 2200 degrees, and even a missile launcher.
Robocop: The Series also gave him several explosives called Ordinances, that when triggered by his Auto-9 would cause large explosions. And while an unconventional weapon, the Data Spike that protrudes from his right fist, which he normally uses to access computers is incredibly sharp, and capable of eliminating criminals with quick stabs, as shown when he fights Boddicker. He used a Cobra Assault Rifle that he picked off of one of Boddicker’s men to destroy the ED-209 at the end of the first Robocop film, but this weapon isn't normally used by him, so it’s likely Robocop won’t get it. The weapon itself however is incredibly powerful capable of demolishing a 6000 SUX Sedan (Ahahaha!) with one shot. The instance of Robocop using it is also pretty clear proof Robocop is not above taking an opponent’s weapon and using it himself.
Skills and Abilities
The T-850 is an improvement over the T-800 in just about every sense of the word...Well, aside from being in not as good of movies as the T-800. It’s capable of holding up against a T-1000, though it only has a 4.333% chance of beating it in hand to hand combat.
The machine’s built-in senses are enhanced to the point that it can memorize subtle body language, calculate specific distances between it and other objects, detect things via infrared, optical, and electromagnetic sensors, and zoom in for increased accuracy. Its two eyes are composed of the same durable metal as its exterior, and are capable of tracking 2 different targets at once. As if that weren’t enough, the T-850 comes with a voice replication system that lets it mimic the voice of others. The Terminator itself feels absolutely zero pain when taking any damage, and can continue fighting even with missing limbs.
Both the CPU to the T-800 and the T-850 feature detailed information of the human anatomy to make them more efficient at killing. Said CPU is intricately connected with other Terminators, all of which have shared their knowledge of weaponry, infiltration, and combat with one another, making them all experts in the art of battle.
Murphy’s cybernetic enhancements give him incredibly good aim thanks to a built-in targeting system structured in a grid-like manner that lets him zoom in and track opponents, as well as make use of his environment, like using walls to ricochet bullets. One point in the original Robocop film best portrays his aim when he effortlessly shoots at different segments of a training target with perfect accuracy. His senses are enhanced thanks to a thermal vision option, and a directional microphone that lets him hear trouble from a distance. Both of Robocop’s arms have a grip strength equivalent to 400 foot pounds and are stated to be capable of crushing any bone in the human hand. He can lift small cars with one arm, and even overpowered the ED-209 in the original Robocop after suffering a lot of abuse from the enemy machine.
Murphy is suitably shown to move in a robotic manner in most incarnations, almost always slowly walking towards his target, tanking whatever gunfire they send at him. Though other portrayals of Robocop have shown he at least has the agility and mobility of your typical human, and his mobility is all the more improved by his Flightpack.
The T-850 has been built to withstand heavy punishment from the Resistance, any reprogrammed battle units. It has increased Titanium Alloy Armor which protects it from plasma weapons. They have a more powerful Servo Motor and Hydraulic System, making them stronger and faster than the original T-800, which was tough enough to endure a full collision with a large truck. It is capable of ripping a human's head off its body in 1.8 seconds. As well as its increased armor and strength, the T-850 is outfitted with a series of Action Network Circuits. These act like the electronic equivalent of adrenaline.
The T-850, instead of being powered by a nuclear-energy Iridium cell, is powered by twin hydrogen fuel cells. They provide greater power and a longer life than the previous power source. And is placed in the torso so they can easily be replaced or repaired. If one is removed, the T-850 can still function almost as effectively as if both were there. But if the hydrogen fuel cell is ruptured, it can become unstable and explode like a miniature hydrogen bomb. The explosion destroys even the most advanced Terminators like the T-X. The problem is the explosion is huge, and takes down the T-850 in the process. An opponent would have to either be fast enough to escape or be strong enough to endure the blast.
Robocop's armor is primarily composed of,
"Titanium, laminated with kevlar" - A scientist in the original Robocop film (27:46)
His cyborg form has some remnants of his fully organic body, but how much of Murphy remains has been inconsistent. In the original movie he had to digest baby-food-like paste to keep his organic system functioning, but later films went as far as to imply even his face was artificial (although this is highly unlikely). But no matter what version you’re using, Robocop is mostly metal, and all cop. Several joint areas (essentially any area that is black) are padded with special heat/bullet proof soft armor, and the visor is composed of the same metal as his suit, capable of taking numerous bullets.
All this makes Robocop obscenely durable, able to withstand the full force of a car crusher, gas station explosions, falling from a skyscraper, full-frontal car-crashes, multiple direct hits from RPGs, and being bombarded with gunfire. There is some limit to how much abuse Robocop can take as shown near the ending to the original Robocop when he was hit with numerous armor-piercing rounds from a small army of police officers, and was forced to retreat. However, even after all of that, he still defeated all of Boddicker’s men, and was capable of fighting on.
There is one last vital piece of armor, the Flightpack. This attachable jetpack both gives Robocop extra battery life, and as the name suggests lets him engage in flight.
The T-850, like the T-800s, is hackable. The Resistance were capable of holding it down long enough to reprogram it for missions they needed it to do. And Terminator 3 is not the only instance of that. In the official comic series "Terminator 3: Before the Rise", another T-850 unit was captured and reprogrammed before the events of T3. Also, his power source, if damaged and not removed in time, can wipe both him, and potentially his opponent, out.
No matter what way you slice it RoboCop is slow. While his firing speed and accuracy are impressive, he moves like a tank. How hindered he is by this has varied somewhat, and this lack of mobility is largely fixed by his Flight Pack, but there are a large number machines with better agility and speed than him. To boot, he is still powered by organics which makes him more vulnerable than other machinery. Both his organics and mechanics need to be monitored and maintained in order for him to function at his highest capacity. Thankfully these can be monitored by him with his wrist.
One-liners and badass quotes
Yes, we’re going to mention these. We NEED to mention these! This is a battle of late-80s/early-90s robotic manliness after all.
And of course.
And Lousy’s personal favorite.
-Despite Robocop’s many years of experience as a law-enforcer and cybernetic cop, with a literal database worth of combat information, the Terminator has more experience, and knowledge.
-More mobile on the ground, and when Robocop lacks the Flightpack.
-If his futuristic plasma weaponry is included (unlikely) Robocop would have no defense against them.
-Contemporary arsenal is inferior.
-Not as durable.
-Not as mobile when Robocop has the Flightpack.
-Is more durable, and packing better durability feats.
-Upgrades give him a more powerful arsenal.
-The Flightpack gives him better mobility.
-Due to the sensors built into his handgun, and the fact that the Weapon Arm is compatible only with his left arm, Robocop’s weapons are guaranteed to be used by him and him alone. This means the Terminator has no chance of upgrading his arsenal by taking Robocop’s weapons.
-Not as mobile on the ground, or without the Flightpack.
-No defense from the T-850’s futuristic weapons if they are allowed (again, unlikely).
-Not as experienced due to the T-850’s database worth of knowledge.
This isn’t the first time Robocop fought the Terminator. There was the comic series by Dark Horse made by Frank Miller (possibly before he went coo-coo for Batman). There are the fan videos by AMDS FILMS. And of course, they faced each other in the Robocop Vs Terminator games. And since he’s the hero, Robocop was usually the winner of this confrontation. Doing the research, we can see why beyond that.
The T-850 is an impressive piece of hardware, but to serve its purpose (infiltrate humans) it couldn’t be as advanced as the T-1000s or the T-Xs. Robocop has faced machines superior to him and similar to the Terminators (Robocop 3) and has defeated them through his human mind. While not superior to a computer, it can come up with things a computer program could not. And unless the Terminator has access to his futuristic weaponry, I don’t believe he could overcome Robocop.
So my vote is for Murphy.
I think this largely comes down to what each combatant is given. the T-850 is deadly with his contemporary weapons, but I don’t believe it is enough to match Robocop’s arsenal, especially given the better mobility he’ll have with his Flightpack, and the destructive force of stuff like his RPG attachment and ordinances. On top of that, Robocop has far better durability feats, having endured multiple RPG rockets, gas station explosions, ETC. Compare that to the Terminator, who was blown in half by a pipe bomb in the original film. Yes, the model in question that was destroyed by the pipe bomb was the inferior T-800, but even so, I think it shows how much more durable Robocop is.
However, if the T-850’s futuristic weapons are included, it becomes a different ballgame. Robocop has never gone up against weaponry of its caliber (to my knowledge at least), and I believe he may not have what it takes to survive a confrontation with a combination of the T-850’s level of skill with firearms, and the destructive capabilities of plasma-based weapons.
But this is the point where the rules that govern the Terminator universe backfire on the T-850. It’s well-established in order to travel back in time the T-850 can’t bring anything non-organic along with him, not even clothes. This includes any futuristic weaponry, hence why the Terminator we’ve taken all the feats from has contemporary weapons in the movies. It is highly unlikely plasma-weapons would be considered standard equipment since he has never even used them. This leaves the Terminator with an inferior arsenal. That in combination with Robocop’s entourage of superior durability feats makes it clear to me that, unless the Terminator has his futuristic firearms, this is a clear win for Robocop.
This fight has been pretty well covered by the other members of the team and I really don’t have much to add aside from the following.
Both Robocop and the Terminator are really hard to kill, the ultimate question for this fight is who could hurt the other the most before falling apart. If the Terminator is bound to his universe’s laws and only carries around conventional weaponry, he is going to have a hard time damaging Robocop as he has been seen being able to tank a large amount of armor piercing bullets, and gets blown up and dropped off of buildings regularly. Robocop will have the same struggle as the Terminator is made of tough stuff as well.
I suppose a good way to answer the question is to look into why these two machines were created. Robocop was built to be the ultimate peace keeper and while slow and bulky was at his core designed to deal with the type of things the Terminator will most likely have on him and is essentially a combat robot. The Terminator on the other hand, while a damn good fighter was designed as an infiltrator who could fight things off if he had to, Skynet themselves built new and better models of the Terminator because ultimately the 800 model and even the 850 just were not going to get done what they needed. I think the fact that Skynet was able to deduce that the model had problems with it and needed to be replaced, says more than the police haphazardly trying to replace Robocop with newer models.
And this is not even getting into the fact that Robocop was basically the winner of the crossover between there universes. Granted, Robocop was the hero and had to win because of that fact. Actually, seeing as how easily hackable the Terminator is could RoboCops data spike take information from him? Regardless, unless there is something huge or obvious we missed, it will be a close fight, but I think Robocop will win.
In the eyes of many, the answer to this question has already been answered several times in the form of crossover games, comics, and fan-made videos. In this comics crossover, Robocop beat not one, but three T-800s, only to resurface years later to lead the Resistance in a war that toppled Skynet. The only thing that makes DEATH BATTLE’s scenario different is that its the T-850 and not the T-800.
And while the T-850 does have a few slight advancements here and there, the only one that really matters are the hydrogen fuel cells. While we were conducting research, we spent hours debating the impact that the T-850’s fuel cells would have on the outcome of the fight. We asked ourselves questions like; “Could the T-850’s programming allow the use of the hydrogen fuel cells in a DEATH BATTLE?” “Could the T-850 throw them and detonate them a safe distance away?” “Could Robocop survive the explosion?” And etc, and etc, and etc.
I concluded that since the T-850 only used the fuel cells as a last resort, and judging by the fact that it never utilized the throw and detonate strategy at the beginning of its confrontation with the TX, there wasn't much evidence to support the Terminator's ability to survive the explosion. Even from a throwing distance, a hydrogen fuel cell would be more than enough to blow away the Terminator. In the third film where it was showcased, it was powerful enough to blow through the entryway of a nuke proof bunker that looked roughly the size of a football field. And even if the Terminator had the ability to shoot the fuel cell in the middle of a throw, I’m not entirely sure the firing range of any of the Terminator’s weapons would allow it to be at safe distance.
Needless to say, there’s plenty of assumptions being made here, but at the end of the day, it remains an irrefutable fact that Robocop is tough enough to survive a gas station explosion, an underground gas-pipe explosion, falling from a skyscraper through several floors of concrete, the entire Detroit police force armed with armor piercing bullets, and direct hits from RPGs. The original Terminator was blown in half with a pipe bomb. If there’s anyone more likely to survive a hydrogen fuel cell explosion, it's Robocop.
From this, I conclude only two possible scenarios. Either Robocop’s vastly superior weaponry, strength, and durability trumps the T-850, or the T-850 goes out in a blaze of glory by detonating the hydrogen fuel cell and taking Robocop down with him. Either way, the Terminator get’s terminated.
My money is on Robocop.
Personally I’m not incredibly familiar with both of these characters, but based on the research that was collected I have to say that Robocop most likely has the advantage in this fight. Not only is his arsenal arguably better than the Terminators, but the mobility of his jetpack and his ability to think more outside the box puts him slightly above the terminator in terms of sheer combat ability. Quite honestly the best case scenario for the terminator in this fight would be a double KO, induced by blowing up one of his fuel cells while Robocop is within the blast radius, and even then given Robocop's durability and flight an explosion like that might not clip him enough to finish him off anyway.
Overall I’m going with Robocop
And so another conclusion is reached, and another robotic battle is ready to occur. Until next time, Happy Holidays everyone!
Ow...We mean Happy Thanksgiving...