Final Analysis for Superman and Goku (w/ power levels)
This is going to be the final analysis for both Superman and Goku. It will take into account everything that Ben and Chad included in their Death Battle, as well as what they didn't. Goku fans don't like their math? They want power levels and higher gravity? We'll give it to them. Using feats, power levels, and everything else, we'll settle this once and for all...
-Heart of Steel
-Last Son of Krypton
WE ARE NOT EMPLOYED BY OR REPRESENTATIVES OF SCREWATTACK OR DEATH BATTLE
Again, we are not employed by ScrewAttack or Death Battle. Now here's the blog...
Alright, so during the Other World Martial Arts Tournament, Goku in base form was shown unable to really lift 40 tons (10 on each limb). Since this occurred just after the Cell Saga, it can be assumed that Goku's base power was already in the millions. But since he was on Grand Kai's Planet and most assume that planet to have 10x Earth's normal gravity (just like King Kai's), he was really lifting 400 tons.
Now, for this stat and all others, I will be giving Goku a factor of 1,000,000,000 to account for what many believe to be his final power level...instead of the x586 Death Battle used to account for gravity. And yes, I am overexaggerating Goku's power since I'm technically multiplying his power level by 1 billion when it was already in the tens-hundreds of millions. And the fact that this would imply Goku could handle 1,000,000,000 Earth's normal gravity in base when Vegeta could only handle 450x in just the previous Saga...
Okay, so Goku lifted 400 tons (kind of) in base. Now to account for his power increase throughout the series by the end of GT, let's multiply that by 1 billion and then add the Super Saiyan multipliers (50x for SS1, 2x that for SS2, 4x that for SS3, and 10x that for SS4...or just multiply it all once by 4000)
400 tons x 1,000,000,000 = 400,000,000,000 tons
400 billion tons x 50 x 2 x 4 x 10 = 1,600,000,000,000,000 tons (1.6 quadrillion tons)
Obviously much more than Death Battle gave him with their 160,000 tons. But again, I'm accounting for power levels here...not just gravity and feats.
So, Goku's final strength level in Super Saiyan 4 is 1.6 quadrillion tons.
Now, Superman's strength is easy to calculate because it's already been done so many times. Chad and Ben have already stated it though as 66.6 quintillion tons due to his moving the Earth feat. And since they're accounting for Earth's mass and whatnot, I'll leave it at that, though he's been shown to lift more before.
In All-Star Superman, he was stated to being lifting 200 quintillion tons with just one arm. And since Goku got to use all of his limbs for the 40 ton feat, let's give Superman at least his other arm. That means he can lift 400 quintillion tons after being supercharged by the Sun. And Superman states that he feels like he could do a lot more.
And while I'm not using this, I feel I should mention that in the New 52 (2011 Post-Flashpoint reboot of DC), Superman, in his 13th issue, was shown lifting 6.6 sextillion tons for five days underground (deprived of Sunlight on purpose) and broke one single droplet of sweat. And since this was a machine producing this much weight, there's no messing with the number to account for actual mass. Superman stated he could do more, but the scientist conducting the test said that using any more power would threaten the entire solar system.
But disregarding the New 52, since that's not the Superman we're using, his strength falls in at...
66.6 quintillion tons at base
400 quintillion tons (minimum) when supercharged.
Superman is vastly superior to Goku when it comes to strength. Goku's strongest form is still 416.25 times weaker than Superman's base. If you add sundipping then the Saiyan is 2500x weaker then the Man of Steel. That's a 2500x edge to Superman for one category.
And for all you people saying that lifting strength doesn't equal striking strength...hold on and read on...I'll answer that question later...
Alright, so whether I'm disagreed with on this or not doesn't really matter because honestly, the Gero bomb calculation is the best and most definitive way to calculate Goku's durability, as it's based on actual information from the series. If anyone else can come up with something better though, then please, let me know...
Dr. Gero's bomb made to kill Goku was said to be able to destroy the Earth and was calculated as TNT (so megatons) in the series. Wiz and Boomstick's calculation of this was flawless, putting the bombs output at 53,000,000,000,000,000 (53 quadrillion megatons). Like I said...if you can do better...
Anyway, I'm not going to use their method for adding in Goku's increase in durability, but instead my own as I stated before. So let's take 53 quadrillion and multiply it by what fans assume his power level to be by the end of GT...1 billion. This gives us 53,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (53 sextillion megatons). Now we add the Super Saiyan multipliers and...
53 sextillion x 2 x 4 x 10 = 21,200,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (21.2 septillion megatons)
Goku can survive up to a 21.2 septillion megaton yield by the end of GT in Super Saiyan 4. That's 0.212% of the megaton yield of a Sun-sized supernova.
Now for Superman's durability. And like I said, his feats are easier for you guys to acknowledge as they've already been stated by Wiz and Boomstick themselves. Even if you didn't read the comics like most of us DC fans did, you can still accept the truth of his actual feats...hopefully...
Alright, so Superman has survived so many supernovas and supernova level attacks that it's ridiculous. Aside from surviving a straight Sun-sized supernova before, he's survived Coldcast's estimated 15 supernova blast, and even a supernova estimated by an onlooker to be 50x larger than Kepler's supernova...and that was after being substantially weakened by a bombardment of red sun radiations blasts.
But for arguments sake, I'll just say that base Superman can survive a single, Sun-sized supernova, which would produce a 10 octillion megaton yield. Though I'll put Coldcast's blast below as well. Hyperbole? Maybe, but Superman has proven time and time again that his bio-electric aura protects him from just about anything...
So Superman's durability falls in at being able to easily survive...
10 octillion megaton yield at base power (no sundip)
150 octillion megaton yield considering Coldcast's statement (again, no sundip)
And both of those are without sundipping. With sundipping? There's never been something he's had to survive after becoming supercharged. Though he does become vastly stronger in every way (obviously), so it could be assumed that he could survive much more.
In the end, durability is another thing that Superman trumps Goku in. A base (no sundip) Superman can, at the very minimum, survive 10 octillion megatons. Goku, with the power level factoring of 1,000,000,000 and his Super Saiyan multipliers, still only falls in at 21.2 septillion.
That's 471.70 times weaker than Superman's minimum.
(NOTE: I'd like to point out here that Coldcast may have been exaggerating when he said he hit Superman with 15 supernovas, but Cell could have also been exaggerating when he said he'd blow up the solar system with his Kamehameha. I find it funny that Goku fans are so quick to dismiss one and keep the other. And yet, they're the ones calling Wiz, Boomstick, and any Superman fan biased...)
So most DBZ fans are upset about the speed Goku was given in the Death Battle between him and Superman. They're upset that the Snake Way calculation was used when GT Goku has to be so much faster than that. What they obviously didn't see in the video was that Wiz and Boomstick used a multiplier to take his training and increases into account. The calculations had to rely on feats and not power levels or powerscaling. Well, here you go DBZ fans because remember, I'm multiplying any feat Goku has accomplished by 1,000,000,000 to account for his power level increase throughout the series. And then adding Super Saiyan multipliers onto that. So here we go...
Goku crossed the curvy Snake Way by flying in a straight line directly over it. Wiz and Boomstick astonished me with their calculation of how far he actually went, taking into account the curves that would take Snake Way's length down substantially. And since they calculated it to actually be 190,761 miles long, I'm going to use his speed of 6,800 mph to get across it in 28 hours.
Now, let's multiply that by a billion for power level increase and then add the Super Saiyan multipliers. Goku's speed is actually...
6,800,000,000,000 mph (6.8 trillion mph) at base
6.8 trillion x 50 x 2 x 4 x 10 = 2,720,000,000,000,000 (2.72 quadrillion mph) in Super Saiyan 4
That translates to 4,055,968 times faster than the speed of light. Obviously much faster with the 1 billion times increase we're giving to him before his Super Saiyan multipliers.
Over the course of his Moder Age career, Superman has shown so many levels of faster than light (FTL) movement that it's gotten to the point that he's been compared to the Flash in terms of speed. Ridiculous notion, but still.
However, at base, his fastest known speed was stated by Batman to be at least 10,563,300,000 mph (10.5 billion mph). That's 15.75 times the speed of light. However, that's nowhere near his upper limit...as I'll explain in a second.
On top of his speed, Superman's reflexes and reaction time are beyond measurement. In the JLA comics, Batman says that Superman can perceive things happening with zeptosecond precision. Nanosecond = one billionth of a second. Zeptosecond = one sextillionth of a second. To save Lois Lane, he read and memorized every medical text ever published (a number ranging in the hundreds of thousands, each book anywhere from 500-5000 pages long) and performed surgery single-handedly with his heat vision to save her life...all in under five minutes.
His brain obviously works faster than any supercomputer could ever hope to. This adds to his reaction speed. But I know what you're saying. Goku is still faster with the 1,000,000,000 factor you gave him. Well, here's a Superman feat after becoming supercharged...
In All-Star Superman, the Man of Steel raced to Alpha Centauri and back within seconds just to pick flowers for Lois before she finished her sentence to him. Now, Alpha Centauri is 4.367 light years away from Earth. Superman went there and back (8.734 light years) in 20 seconds. How do I know it was 20 seconds? Well, using the animated film (since in the comic, it was a single panel), I timed the second he was offscreen to the second he reappeared onscreen, which turned out to be 20 seconds long.
Now...how fast did he have to be going to get to Alpha Centauri, pick flowers, and get back in 20 seconds? Let's do the math...
If Superman traveled 8.734 light years, then he traveled 513,428,174,000,000 miles (513.4 trillion miles). If we divide that number by 20 (the time it took him to get there and back) then he was traveling at a speed of 25,671,409,000,000 miles per second (25.6 trillion miles per second). That's 92,417,072,400,000,000 miles per hour (92.4 quadrillion miles per hour).
And that's 137,809,097 times the speed of light. Not to mention, he can vibrate his molecules so fast that he can vibrate through anything.
So again, in the end, Superman is still so much faster than Goku. While this may be the one category that Goku's strongest form is faster than Superman's base, Superman becomes so much faster after sundipping that Goku wouldn't be able to keep up.
Goku can travel 2.72 quadrillion miles per hour or 4.05 million times the speed of light.
Superman (supercharged) can travel 92.4 quadrillion miles per hour or 137.8 million times the speed of light.
That means Superman is 33.97 times faster than Goku when both are at max power.
And before anyone says it, no, Instant Transmission does not count as speed. It's teleportation, plain and simple. Goku can't actually fight in Instant Tranmission. The only time he's ever done that was with Cooler, who was also using it. If he could fight in it with normal foes, don't you think he would have done that to Cell, Buu, Baby, Super 17, or Omega?
Also, people like to argue that movement speed does not equal combat speed. And even if those people were right then go look up Superman's combat speed feats. He literally creates dozens of after images when moving around an opponent and can disappear and reappear from sight instantaneously. Also, as stated before, Superman perceives at the zeptosecond. His combat speed and reaction time is much faster than Goku's.
Ki/Energy Output, Intelligence, Stamina, and Fighting Styles
Now I'll touch on ki/energy output, intelligence, stamina, fighting styles, and even weaknesses, but it's fairly pointless now, as these don't have the same kind of feats as the ones posted above and therefore, won't be as definitive. But here's the rundown...
Goku may be able to produce more energy than Superman, 21.2 septillion megatons by the laws of physics and the calculations above, but that's still not even close to the level of a supernova. That means that Goku is a multi-planet buster, not a solar system or galaxy buster, at best. And Superman is also a planet buster...obviously.
Goku has Kaio-Ken and the ability to absorb a Spirit Bomb he's created, but Kaio-Ken only temporarily increases his power, and at most, by 20. That's still nowhere close enough to touch Superman's feats and calculations above.
As for absorbing Spirit Bomb, while Goku does gain a massive increase in ki, it is nigh impossible to calculate how much power he would actually be absorbing. And as per rules of the Death Battle, he could only absorb energy from inanimate things...one of those things being the Sun, what King Kai said gives the Spirit Bomb its true power. That means he'd almost become a second sun for Superman to absorb energy from.
And anyway, while Goku is charging the Spirit Bomb, Superman will be sitting inside the sun...increasing his power exponentially by the amount of time he stays in there. And if you've never read the comics then you can tell from the Death Battle just how powerful that makes him.
Superman is a super-genius. His mind processes, memorizes, and retains endless amounts of information indefinitely at nigh immeasurable speeds. Goku, on the other hand, is a simpleton. While he may be a combat genius, he does not have the intelligence that Superman does. He doesn't even have the combat experience. In Action Comics Issue #761, Superman fights for a thousand years in an alternate demon world. That's a thousand years of pure combat experience right there.
Superman also has to fight his opponents numerous times, whereas Goku only has to fight each once. Superman said it to Ultraman best when he said that fighting the same opponent numerous times, an opponent who has learned from their past mistakes and strives to kill him in a different way each time, has pushed Superman to become even stronger as well.
Obviously, Superman wins this category, hands down.
This one isn't even a contest. I think even Goku fans can agree on this. Goku has a finite amount of energy to put out. Superman doesn't. He is constantly recharging and healing as long as the Sun's rays are upon him. Superman's energy is limitless, while Goku's isn't.
Even if Goku managed to get Superman away from the yellow sun, it wouldn't mean Superman would deplete immediately. It would take days. Even recently (in a reboot that was meant to make Superman weaker), he lasted five full days undeground (so without the Sun replenishing him), bench pressing the weight of the Earth on a machine. And he sweat one single droplet of sweat.
It's easy to tell...Superman's energy > Goku's.
This is one that may come as a surprise to most Goku fans, but Superman actually has the edge with this one. While Goku is a better martial arts fighter, Superman has styles of martial arts that are more effective when used against someone like Goku.
Goku uses a variety of rapid punches, spinning kicks, and certain throws to wear down his opponent, while Superman focuses on pressure points, using his x-ray and microscopic visions to even have it work on unique alien lifeforms (Example: Maxima).
However, if Goku is allowed to use his Senzu Beans and recover from the pressure points, then he has Superman beat in martial arts prowess. Superman knows various martial arts styles, mainly after training with Mongul, but he hasn't trained his entire life with them. Though, like I said earlier, he did fight for a thousand years in a demon world...
Superman's weakness to Kryptonite would not come into play in a battle with Goku. And even if it did, Goku would not use it to his advantage. That's just not his way. However, it should be noted to all of you DBZ fans who have never read a Superman comic, Death Battle's representation of Kryptonite on Superman was vastly over exaggerated. He fights Metallo on a regular basis, who can fire Kryptonite energy beams, and has defeated him every single time. It weakens him, but not as quickly as was shown.
Magic. Yes, magic affects Superman the same as it would any other being. However, it DOES NOT weaken him. I can't stress that enough. Magic somehow passes right through his bio-electric aura, but still doesn't pass through his super-dense molecular structure...not easily, anyway. Superman has fought being composed entirely of magic (Captain Marvel and Black Adam), with strength and speed feats comparable to Superman himself, and the Man of Steel has still come out on top. Sorry, but a magic stick is not going to hurt Superman very much. What happened in the fight is exactly what would happen.
And finally, red sun radiation... Red sun radiation slowly drains Superman of his yellow sun energy reserves, but it is a fairly slow process. In Infinite Crisis, Superman flew through a red sun while fighting Superboy-Prime, crashing onto a planet littered with Kryptonite afterward and fighting him to unconsciousness. Think about that for a second. He flew THROUGH a red sun... If you watched the Death Battle then you know the closest he is to a star the more energy he takes in. Goku's durability isn't even enough to stand up to being inside a star anyway though.
Lifting Strength vs Striking Strength
Alright, I said I'd touch on it so I will. Lifting strength isn't the same as striking strength. That's very true. Striking strength is based on speed and mass, whereas lifting strength is just based around mass. So, why have people been arguing that Superman can't strike with the same force he lifts with? Beats me. Because he can strike with a lot more force...
Striking power or force is based on speed and mass. Superman can move at 137.8 million times the speed of light. And yes, that's movement speed, but his arms can travel the same speed, if not faster. Think about it for a second...how fast can you run? Maybe 10-12 miles an hour on a good day? That's average. Well you can throw a punch the same speed, if not faster. Muhammud Ali's punch was clocked at 20 mph and he was a heavyweight. Lightweights throw punches faster than that. Bruce Lee was said to be clocked at 60 mph...though that's up for debate.
Anyway, Superman would throw his punches as fast as he could move his body around, which is millions of times the speed of light. This is what allows him to perform the Infinite Mass Punch, which delivers a payload of 10 octillion megatons. That's the same force as a supernova. Since force is mass x acceleration, technically, all of Superman's punches would reach some underscore of that same yield.
Superman has even said and shown it numerous times in the comics...his punches have the ability to "shatter entire worlds". That means that each punch would be delivering a payload of at least 53 quadrillion megatons. Hyperbole? Maybe. But it's still enough to cause a world of hurt on anyone he's hitting.
If striking force is based on speed (which it is), then Superman has more than enough of it (92.4 quadrillion miles per hour) to equalize and surpass just about whoever he's fighting.
Even after giving Goku a 1,000,000,000 times increase to his feats to compensate for power level/gravity increases and stacking his Super Saiyan multipliers onto that, Superman still comes out on top in every category.
Giving Goku 1,000,000,000 times his stats at base is like saying he can survive that much times Earth's normal gravity. And let's factor that for a second, shall we?
Vegeta was training in 500x (I think it's actually 450x, but we'll use 500x) gravity in the Buu Saga. Vegeta was the same strength as Goku; he just couldn't go into Super Saiyan 3. So let's take that gravity and multiply it by the Super Saiyan modifiers up to Super Saiyan 3 to see what Goku could withstand in his final DBZ form...
500 x 50 x 2 x 4 = 200,000 Earth's normal gravity. So Goku in Super Saiyan 3 can survive 200,000 times Earth's normal gravity in Super Saiyan 3 by the end of the Buu Saga.
Well, a lot of people say that Goku in GT, at base, equals Super Saiyan 3 Goku from DBZ. That means that GT Goku at base can survive 200,000 times Earth's normal gravity. Now let's do the math to see what he could actually stand up to in Super Saiyan 4...
200,000 x 50 x 2 x 4 x 10 = 800,000,000 times Earth's normal gravity in Super Saiyan 4.
We gave him 1,000,000,000 times Earth's normal gravity in base before I ever even added the Super Saiyan multipliers.
DBZ fans, you were upset about Death Battle's calculations. I just gave you an over-estimation of Goku's power and it's still not even close to the Man of Steel.
Some of the ones that keep arguing need to understand that Goku just isn't as powerful as Superman and he was never meant to be. That's okay. He's a fantastic character in his own right and deserves respect all the same. But no matter what you do and how you do the math (if you do it feasibly), the Saiyan is never defeating Superman.
End of story.
Superman-Prime vs Future Goku
We've all seen the debates before for why future Goku, after he fused with the Dragonballs and Shenron, wasn't used. Well, beyond the fact that we have no idea of just how powerful he became (assumed power level 1,000,000,000, which is what we used here), we also have no idea what he is capable of even doing. Whereas Superman-Prime, however, has several feats.
The only thing we know for a fact about Goku is that he now has eternal life because of his appearance to Goku Jr. in the GT movie, A Hero's Legacy. However, we cannot assume that he is immortal. Immortality is the inability to die by any means. Eternal life is the inability to age or die from old age. Other than that, we can only assume that Goku's power level increased. After that, it's ALL just speculation...
Superman-Prime has been living inside the Sun for the last 15,000 years. His powers have grown to beyond measurement and his feats rank up there with real gods. He's omniscient, which means he knows everything and is able to know everything that's happening in the universe. He's omnipresent, able to be wherever he wants whenever he wants. And he's omnipotent, which means he has unlimited power and energy and can do whatever he wants to with a thought.
Just to back up what's stated above...Superman-Prime brought Lois Lane back to life and gave her an immortal body that could never die. He then created his own planet with a thought for him and Lois to live on. Oh and he also possesses the last Green Lantern Ring in the entire universe...which is fueled by his own power, and under that power, is the weapon of a god.
And finally, omnipotence is the power to give life and take it away. Superman-Prime has already proven he can give life with a thought and so he can take it away with one as well. He could literally blink Goku, or anyone else for that matter, out of existence. This just isn't a fair fight for anyone to go up against.