PLEASE READ. EDIT 2014/05/01: This blog is REALLY REALLY REALLY outdated. New information, facts, scans and other miscellaneous items have surfaced. You are free to read, but take everything at face value as this is not the best blog. Some of my points still stand, but some have no value or basis. You may find the links might not work.... yea very outdated.. read at your own leisure.
Also a better and not outdated blog: http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-battle-erred-goku-vs-superman
To Summarize my argument Goku is a born fighter, and has the power, speed and strength to take down Superman.
Gokus techniques such as Ki blasts and Maniuplation, Instant Transmission, Combat sense, the Dragon Fist, and Telekensis trump Superman's abilites.
Goku's destructive power is insane, and rivaled by cosmic beings and God's. Goku can blow up planets with ease, and could blow up a large portion of the Galaxy at full power SSJ3. Superman has never come close to that power.
When Goku can use Ki to bolster there already insane hitting power, Goku literally shakes the planet by the shockwaves his punches produces.
Goku's combat speed and Instant Transmission are way beyond Superman's level, showing how in base he can go FTL the Super Sayain forms would be even faster. In a fight, combat speed Goku is unmatched.
Goku martial arts and fighting techniques completely surpass Superman.
Frieza can survive Namek exploding with his body chopped in half, SSJ Goku can do it easily.
Combined these factors and it concludes to Goku beating Superman. Anything at SSj2 level or above is enough to put down Superman.
Read the Blog if you're not convinced.
Not affiliated with DEATHBATTLE in anyway just giving my argument.
Ground Rules for this Blog
- Canon Comic Facts ONLY
- Canon Manga Facts ONLY
- Dragon Ball - Dragon Ball Z - Dragon Ball GT only
- Some Anime Filler Allowed (Mostly Fight Scenes)
- Non-Canon DBZ movies not allowed IE. Broly,
- No Silverage, Golden Age,(Because Retconned),
- No Superman Prime, Cosmic Armor, All-Star, Kingdom Come
- No Kryptonite
- Regular Goku vs Regular Superman
* Note : All Scans of Feats and such are presented in HyperLinks
* Some will be in pictures if Important
Goku and Dragon Ball Z characters have Ki which is a life force that determines how powerful each character is. The power scaling rule is the more Ki (higher power level) the more power, strength, speed, stamina durabiity, abilities ect. This differentiates DBZ characters from comics book superhero's like Superman or Captain Marvel, who have different powers, skills, strengths and weaknesses.
That then brings us to the infamous ABC logic. ABC logic means that:
A character > B character > C character,
That A will always beat C because A beat B. This logic is usually disregarded in comic battles and debates because it is oftentimes faulty. Usually because of special conditions on a character, plot stupidity or some skills can be more effective on certain characters.
However this is not the case in DBZ. DBZ follows the strict power level rule that the higher power level the more powerful a character is. This helps DBZ determine how powerful a character is even if they have little feats or screentime.
I Quote an AnimeVice User hitsusatu11*:
Now some of you who are unfamiliar with Dragonball and do not understand its power progressions, and as such brand this ABC logic as false or not valid, but I am sorry you are quite wrong. This is the fundamental principle behind Dragonball, and if you refuse to accept it then you are really just wasting your time debating Dragon Ball Z characters.
For example of this principle if Frieza can destroy a planet, then Cell can as well because his power level is greater. Whether or not Cell actually did it. Also to determine power level is mostly based on fights. This also works for durability, speed, strength ect and will always be the case for fighters in DBZ.
Akira Toriyama made Dragonball like this, if you cannot accept this rule, the please DO NOT DEBATE DB CHARACTERS.
Now on to why Goku beats Superman.
These I will discuss in great detail and will give my case for why Goku wins. They go in order.
- Destructive Power
- Striking and Physical Strength
- Martial Arts
Both Superman and Goku possess abilities they can use in combat. Although Goku has a clear advantage in this topic.
Disregarding obvious powers such as Super Strength, Speed, Invulnerability, Flight ect. these will be brought up later in the blog.
- Heat Vision
- X-Ray Vision
- Freeze Breathe
- Superhuman senses (hearing, sight from great distances)
- Kyptonian Intelligence (Sciences and Physics)
- Powered up by the Yellow Sun
- Can survive in Space (But cannot go forever)
- Super Sayain Transformations
- Kaio Ken
- Solar Flare
- Ki Blasts (Kamehameha, regular blasts)
- Ki Manipulation (Defence, protection)
- Ki Sense
- Instant Transmission
- Dragon Fist
- Emotion reading, predicting attacks
- Spirit Bomb (Outside help, cannot use)
- Get stronger after Near-Death
- Survive in Space for long periods of time
Can read thoughts through contact (Telepathy)
Clearly Goku outnumbers Superman in this category, and his techniques are more useful, versatile and stronger in battle. Right off the bat his his Super Sayain levels increase his power level.
SSj = 50X multiplier
Full Power SSJ The Stronger Super Sayain after training in Hyperbolic time chamber Cell Saga
SSj2 = 100X multiplier
SSj3 = 400X multiplier
As seen his PL of Namek was 3 million, in SSJ it jumps up to 150 million. This is official by Akira Toriyama as writen in the Daizenshuus.
Goku has more experience with SSJ and SSj2 level he can use them without getting tired, but his SSJ3 tired him out, but puts him at insane levels of power. Also Super Sayain can provide new KI which can revive Stamina. Goku fought Frieza and went all out in base form, he was tired and beaten, but when he went SSJ he was perfectly fine.
Time it takes to transform
Now some people think that Goku takes 10 minutes just to transform into Super Sayain 3 and that Superman would just attack then. However this is terribly wrong. The only reason it took Goku long to do it was
- A. Akira wanted to make it an epic moment
- B. First time transforming in the living world
- Needed to stall for Trunks
Goku later turns SSJ3 against Super buu(Gotenks absorbed) in an INSTANT
Coupled with this is his Kaio Ken Technique provides a boost of speed and power. And can be easily used up to 2-20X. Like in the battle vs Frieza where his speed and power jump insanely, also his K iblasts get stronger as well.
Solar Flare when using Heat Vision
Of course, Solar Flare would not be of much use vs Superman since he flies to the sun on a regular basis. However Solar Flare can really be put to good use vs Superman. When Superman uses heat vision, Goku would use light as bright as the sun and stun. Leaving Goku with an opportunity to attack.
While Superman can use Heat Vision, he can only use it to a certain extent. He was only able to clear a feild of Clone Doomsday that even Batman could take down with an axe. Then he said he couldn't do that again. And was in pain after a shot like that.
Also a bloodlusted Superman used heat vision at a close range vs Wonder Woman and tanked it, then pushed it right back in his eyes.
WW clearing tanking the close range heat vision without much problem.
SSj Goku stood lightning which is as hot as the sun.
Ki attacks, Deadliest of Goku arsenal
Another thing to note is the speed at which ki is collected for the genki dama. In just a few minutes, ki from all over the universe and spirit realm were collected to make the genki dama which killed Majin Buu. An indication of how fast ki can travel.
Goku Ki blasts are deadly energy attacks that can easily blow up planets if he wanted to. He can put more or less energy into it if he wants to and can even make the beams turn.
Ki can be used to literally wipe a person out of exsistance and Gotenks can literally wipe an Immortal Magic being Superbuu, until he reverted back.
KI also has many other uses offensively.
Uses it for a Ki push
Rapid Volley Blasts
Used to literally explode people
More of Ki blasts will be discussed in the Destructive Power part.
Goku Ki maniupulation can be used for defensive purposes
Nappa can city bust with his fingers, he fires an almost full powered blast and Goku defend it with ease.
Goku is under boulders and rocks and easily blows it away with KI
This would help against Superman's frost breathe
Ki Sense is the ability to detect a person's Ki from great distances. Goku can detect people across the planet with ease. Now it is unsure whether Goku would detect Superman's KI, but Ki is living aura, everyone has it. The average human has a Power Level of 5, and Goku could sense other alies from across the Galaxy. So sensing Superman's Ki wouldn't be any different.
Also Superman can detect Goku with enhanced sense, so there would be no hiding on ether side. (Not that they would want to)
Was able to pinpoint Bulma's KI out of billions of people on Earth
Goku's most versatile techniques. It's teleportation that can be used for multiple effects. It's so fast Goku can travel across the Galaxy and hit Namek in an instant.
Now lets see The ship tog et to Namek
It took the Spaceship a couple of seconds to reach Jupiter and it takes light 32-54 minutes to reach Juptier from Earth.
Therefore the Spaceship >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> faster then Light Speed Travel
And Since it took the ship over 10 days to get to Namek, and Goku traveled to Namek in an instant, from King kai's planet.
Using the Instant Tranmission to travel across the galaxy, and between dimensons to Namek.
His Instant Transmission speed is thousands of times faster then light, and can be used to cross dimensions between living and dead. This would be a huge factor and requires little to no Ki.
Goku has trained to use it without putting a finger to his head.
Goku also uses it in combat vs Cell and Kid Buu as defensive purposes and offensive purposes
Goku dodging Cells FTL Blast and countering
Goku dodging Buu's blast and then countering
Furthermore instant transmission can teleport other people on contact. This could be used by Goku to move Superman to another location away from the sun, draining him of his solar reserves.
If Goku and Superman ever fought, this would be one of Gokus trump cards. This technique allows Goku to power up a Kamehameha, then instant tranmission right to the enemy and blast it straight in his face.
Using it against Cell
It blows Cell's head off and Cell is extremely durable, seeing how he tanked Vegetas Final Flash, and bombardment from the army.
This technique is extremely useful in combat, and can trick Superman or make him attack the wrong Goku
More afterimages scans
Goku Emotion Reading and Telekensis
Over the DBZ series Goku has shown signs of telepathy and emotion reading. As seen in the scans above he predicts Trunks attack not hitting him. This would help him dodge attacks, and sense what Superman's going to do as soon at the thought reaches Supermans mind.
Goku's telekensis can be used in combat as a push and can lift objects. Frieza lifted a mountain and threw it at Goku, this was when Frieza was only using 1% of his power. Goku can do much, much more.
Goku using Telekensis vs Frieza
Cell also shows this ability and Goku is much stronger when SSj2
Spirit Bomb vs the Spirit Bomb and Sensu Beans DEATHBATTLE SENARIO
Now this is interesting in the senario. Goku can use the spirit bomb and call upon energy from nearby planets, plant life and beings. Superman can get stronger and heal from more exposure to the sun. Both can be considered outside help. However if the Sun can be used to heal Superman then Goku should be able to use Sensu Beans to restore his power.
Although the Spirit Bomb would be rather useless since it takes a while to make, and its only really effective on evil energy. (Gohan was able to bounce it back because he was good)
Also contrary to popular beleif Superman CANNOT breathe in space. First off there is no air in space so you can't breath in it. Second Superman can survive in space and hold his breathe for long periods of time. In Imperiex wars Mongul trained Superman to hold his breath for deep space battles. So Superman HOLDS his breath, and can hold it for long periods of time and "recycle" his air.
Goku's techniques and abilities trump Superman by a wide margin. All of his techniques are uniques in battle can be used as offensive or defensive, and hold more power and versatility then Superman. Speaking of Power, not we move on to the topic of.
Now desctruction power is what DBZ characters REALLY excell at, and Goku is no exception. Now remember that Goku first time SSJ on Namek was 150 000 000, and throught cell saga and Buu saga his power increases drastically. An SSj in the Namek sags wouldn't hold a candle to a SSJ in the Cell or Buu saga, let alone SSJ2 and SSj3. By this Power scaling Goku can destroy Superman.
Master Roshi at Max power with a PL of 300 wiping out the moon in an instant.
Piccolo with a PL of 324 does the exact same thing casually
The strongest nuclear bomb was the Tsar Bomba which has 50 megatons of TNT. And to blow up the moon you would need 30 trillion megatons of TNT, meaning 595 billion bombs.
Source for information:
It's proposterous! literally flabbergasting how much power DBZ characters can generate, and fire without a whim. If Roshi and Piccolo with a PL of 300 could wipe the moon clean from exsistance, think about how much a 150 000 000 PL Goku could do, on top of that his power increases with each season and SSJ2 and SSJ3. It's literally mind boggling. But let's move on to some more scans.
King Vegeta with a power level in the thousands could wipe out planets with ease
And Vegeta with a PL of 18, 000 fired a Galick Gun that could blow up Earth, and yes Goku fired an even STRONGER beam and repeled it back. Meaning Sayain Saga Goku can planet bust and more.
1. img651.imageshack.us/img651/2739/vegetasurvivesplanet.jpg Goku realizes the power
2. img31.imageshack.us/img31/1250/gokuplanetbusting2.jpg Powers it up
4. img256.imageshack.us/img256/4218/gokuplanetbustng.jpg Equally as strong
6. img811.imageshack.us/img811/5140/vegetasurvivesplanet3.jpg Wins beam struggle
Superman has never come close to generating this much power. A bloodlusted Superman's heat vision only split the sea.... which isn't impressive at all.. Master Roshi had a more impressive feats.
Namek = The same size as Earth
Vegeta in the Namek could destroy it with 1 blast casually. This means Base Goku on Namek could wipe out the Earth with 1 blast casually.
First form Frieza blowing up Planet Vegeta (much bigger then Earth) with his FINGER
Now Final Form Frieza is absurdly more powerful then Base Frieza. And he split the mantle of the Planet
Furthermore the only reason Frieza didn't destroy Namek vs Goku because he wanted to prove he could beat him and tried to scare him.
Frieza showing another Planet busting scan
Goku Super sayain has proved he is more powerful then Frieza, even with Frieza at 1% he could blow up the planet, and at 100% Goku still beat him. Frieza is at least a Star Buster and SSJ Goku is even greater.
Super Sayain and Super Sayain 2
All those feats can be achieved by a Super Sayain and beyond and they constatly have to hold back to try not to blow up the planet.
Goku casual blast
SSJ Vegeta vs Android 18
Cell stating his power Super Sayain 2 Gohan impressed and beats him easily
Super Perfect Cell claims that he would blow the entire Solar System, now I beleive that isn't a Hyperbole and is correct statement of his power.
- Akira Toriyama would of never wrote that if he didn't mean it
- Manga isn't like Comic, there isn't a narrator explaining to you about people's abilities and powers, the characters say what they they can do.
- Cell comes from a super computer, he' also very intelligent and has the genes of Piccolo which bolsters his intelligence. He would most likely know what he's capable of.
Majin Vegeta even stating that Goku is stronger then SSJ2 Gohan
This is proof that SSJ2 Goku can blow away a large portion of the Solar system
Now the Super Sayain 3 is the pinnacle of Goku's power, when he powers up the entire earth shakes and buildings start to collapse everywhere, and in the anime if he countined the Earth would of been destroyed.
SSj3 is near Galaxy buster
SSj3 >= Kid Buu who was a galaxy buster. This is proven when Supreme Kai warns them about him.
Supreme Kai warns them Kid Buu can bust entire Galaxies.
Old Kai tells that Kid Buu will destroy the Universe then eventually the Holy relm
Heres scans of Kid Buu actually busting an entire Galaxy, you can even see Buu's energy literally wiping the galaxy out of exsistance.
Goku then states he could of killed Kid Buu as full power if he started out fresh. Meaning Full powered SSj3 > Kid Buu
Goku states that here
Furthermore a SSJ3 rip dimensions just by screaming alone
Some of you think this is all speculation, but like I said in the first paragraph, this ABC logic applies to Dragon ball Z, because every character is governed by their power level. It always has and will continue to do so.
Another thing to mention in the power scaling department
Anyways Goku clearly takes this topic, without a shadow of a doubt. Goku is astronomically powerful, he can literally blow up planets with the flick of his wrist and blow up portions of the Galaxy if he wanted to. Superman has never shown destructive feats even close to Goku. And I'm 99% sure when they face in DEATHBATTLE that Goku will vaporize Superman.
Which brings us to the topic of durability.
Now some people think Superman is completely Invincible and is only effected by Kryptonite, and Magic. This is however false, it's just that he is durable, but I believe Goku takes the more durable.
Note: Remember High Power Level = More durable
Goku Tanks and Deviates a Nuke
In Dragon Ball Goku after fighting with Piccolo survives a nuke blast at point blank range. Goku has a power level fo 300+
Literally buildings across the country are flying, and Tsunami's are throwing boats in the air.
In the battle vs Piccolo he deviates a Nuke type blast away from the spectators
1. Deviates it img856.imageshack.us/img856/4313/gokunuke.jpg
2. Blast Radius img443.imageshack.us/img443/9224/gokunuke2.jpg
Superman is beaten from near-city busting
Superman beaten by getting hurled into the ground
Goku tanking Lightning
The air within lightning can heat up to 54, 000 degrees Fehrenheit, which is nearly 6 times hotter then then the surface of the sun. Since Kid Goku could survive continuous lightning, Goku would survive intense heat. Meaning he would have no problem with Superman's heat vision.
Goku can tank Planet Busting Attacks
Vegeta with a power level of 18, 000 can tank Goku's even stronger Kamehameha, and even after survived a Spirit Bomb and still haev energy. And Sayain Saga Goku proved stronger then Vegeta
Superman hurt by energy blasts
Goku can survive +++++++ Planet Busting Attacks
Frieza who was considerably weaker then Goku, survived alot of attacks. Most notably the Spirit bomb, which gathered energy from plants, animals, Namek and even the surronding planets. All that did was knock the wind out of him.
img507.imageshack.us/img507/8718/friezatanksspiritbomb6.gif Barely Wounded
Frieza Easily kicks away a Planet Buster
Freiza At 1% power kicked through 2 mountains and is not even fazed
Goku gets hit through mountains all the time and isn't scratched.
Superman near-death by Moonbusting a moon made of Dark Energy
Now Frieza at 100% power who had a PL of 120 000 000 survived planet Namek exploding, when he was chopped in half, and beaten down.
Meaning SSJ Goku could tank an exploding planet with ease.
Now you saw Frieza easily kicking a planet busting attack away with little effort. And Namek exploding failed to vaporize his body. But let's see Trunks Sword on Mecha Frieza
Trunks Sword >>>>> Planet Busting Attack and Planet Explosion
Now lets see how good that works on Goku
This means that Goku's Ki enchanced finger has the duraility to survive planet busting. This is further proof that Ki can be used for defence, and can enhance durability
Superman Planets Supernova Surviving Plot induced Stupidity?
Now I know in alot of debates people have brought up this feat, and I'm pretty sure it's PIS, because if Superman can survive a planet Supernova then the previous scans of him getting hit by attacks shoudn't of even fazed him.
The fact is the Supernova had force, but was mostly heat. As Supermans clothes weren't even damaged at all, and Superman has shown he is impervious to heat.
Even if it wasn't PIS Goku could of survived. If Frieza cut in half, and beaten to the point of near-death can survive a planet explosion, then SSJ Goku and beyond can survive alot more then that.
Here are Scans of Superman defeated by Villains much weaker then Goku, who could never generate the force of a supernova, but still damaged Superman.
Bleeding and on the ground
About to be finished off
More people that defeated Superman
Beaten By Atlas
Beaten by Dominus
Beaten by Hawkman drawing energy from the Earths magnetic core (Not Magic)
Pretty sure this was General Zod (may be wrong)
Pounded by Lobo
Defeated by Orion
And none of these were with magic, just brute force.
None of these people could ever destroy a planet, and Goku does so casually.
Now lets see SSJ3 Goku vs Majin Buu
Majin Buu casually runs through a city, toppling apartment building, sky scrapers and literally making buildings fly left and right.
Able to punch back a blast that blew up a 1/10 of the Earth
Majin Buu then punches an SSj3 Goku and is completey unharmed
Superman was beat down and nearly killed by Doomsday, who chucked him throughout the city. This happened in Death of Superman.
Adressing the Cell Explosion (Important)
Now some people argue that "Oh Goku died from Cell's planet busting explosion"
This is actually PIS for these reasons.
- As proven in the scans above anyone greater then Frieza can survive planet busting
- Akira Toriyama wanted to end the series right after Cell, because he wanted the Son the surpass the Father. But due to fans he made the Buu saga (Dragonabll GT isn't canon)
- Goku was exhausted fighting Cell, then got beaten down by Cell Jr's and never took a Sensu bean leaving him drained
- Point blank explosion and it never tried to block
Goku proven by the scans and by power scaling, is more durable then Superman when he is Super Sayain 2 and beyond. He can easily tank planet busting and can go up against enemies who can blow up Galaxies. Although Superman is very, very durable.
Oh HO! Physical Strength is the most brought up topic when making a Goku vs becuase of this 1 completely inaccurate scan about Goku's strength, and people try to jump on the bandwagon and post this whenever possible.
- A. The Kai's planets have inhanced gravity for better training, like King Kai's planet so it is unclear what the actual weight was.
- Exercising with weights =/= lifting capabilities
This is implying also base Goku can only lift 40 tons in base form. This however is incorrect.
In Dragon Ball, Kid Goku pushes a Several Hundred Ton boulder with a PL of around 100. And Majin Buu saga Goku had PL in the millions.
Keep in mind a real life boulder like this one is 340 tons
Teenage Goku throwing a 50+ Ton Giant piccolo with a PL of 300+ (Note how" he's as light as a feather")
This proves that Base Goku on Namek with a PL of 3 million is >>>>>>>>>>> 100 tonner however I have not a shadow of a doubt that when it comes to lifting, throwing and physical might, Superman takes it.
Superman moving 1/3 of the Earth
But Superman is also is strained from lifting a building. (I'm not lowballing Superman, but i'm using this as an example that any character can be low balled, so stop bringing up the 40ton Goku scan)
However Intertia in space means an object in motion in space WILL always stay in motion. Therefore Superman's greatest strength feat was just moving the Earth slightly. He didn't lift tthe planet or move it.
This is not a real strength feat, but he made the entire planet shake
This means Goku made an object with 6,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons of mass shake JUST by powering up
Superman's physical strength is his best trait, he can lift quintillion tons and is extremely strong. However lifting strength =/= hitting power, and I beleive while Superman can lift more and is stronger, Goku hitting power is stronger.
While DBZ warriors don't have much feats in terms of lifting enourmous amounts of weight, they have physical might when putting power into punches or kicks. Goku is no exception.
One of Goku's strongest traits is his hitting power and putting strength into his blows. Kid Goku has shown feats that put him at Super human strength with only a PL in the hundreds.
Kid Goku kicking a small nuke that blows up a mountain
Jumping up and busting through steel mech easily
Here's Arale head butting Commander Blue all the way from Japan to Egypt. And she's weaker then Kid Goku after he trains for 3 years.
Now let's look at Adult Goku who has insane hitting power.
Master Roshi is a moonbuster(shown in his scans above) and he even say's his power stands no chance against the sayains. Nappa is moon buster durability with his PL in the thousands, and Vegeta is planet buster durability but both are trumped by Goku's hitting power.
Moonbuster Roshi saying he has no chance against the sayains.
Goku beating Nappa (moon busting durability) in a one hit
Sayain Goku beating Vegeta up,who has the durability to survive planet busting attacks and a Spirit bomb.
Punching Vegeta in the stomach and making him cough blood
See Superman punch Orion
Yes Superman had morals on, but this scan was just to show that Superman punches can't beats everything in one hit, espcially when he's facing a durable opoonent
Now let's look at Base Goku on Namek. He kicks Frieza through two mountains + resistance from the bottom of the ocean and throws him through. And both of them were just warming up.
Now as said in the durability section, Frieza had +++++Planet busting durability, as he survived Namek exploding chopped in half.
But Super Saiyan Punches hurt him alot.
More Goku vs Frieza
And this is all Base Goku, SSJ could do this in his sleep let alone SSj2 and SSJ3.
Super Sayain 2 and Super Sayain 3 definitely have more hitting power then Superman.
A Bloodlusted Superman, powered by the Sun punches WW from the Sun to the Earth and makes a small crater, resulting from the punch + terminal velocity and gravity.
Now let's see what SSJ3 punch looks like
We see a Super sayain 3 joking around hit a volleyball from the sky to the Earth. And Buu's body is very elastic meaning his body took most of the blow, if he really wanted to he could of destroyed the Earth.
Wonder Woman travels through orbit and her impact greatly increased by terminal velocity and gravity, but it is a dwarf crater compared to a SSJ3 who hit an elastic like volleyball from the sky to the ground.
Now Super Saiyan 3 Goku wasn't around for long, and his full strength was never explored. But if you look closely in the manga, you can see SSJ3 Goku is very strong.
Now the 4 Kai's were killed by Kid Buu, but were extremely strong. They could kill Frieza, (who was a being that could tank planets exploding easily), with ONE PUNCH!
This was confirmed in the manga, and the anime as Supreme Kai explained just how strong the each Kai was. Taken straight from the manga book:
Now being able to fell Frieza with one blow takes someone of planet cracking strength as Frieza is immensely durable.
Kicking back a planet busting attack from Frieza.
Surviving a giant spirit bomb with scratches.
Chopped in half, but is still able to survive a planet exploding on him.
Therefore to kill Frieza with one punch you would need multi-planet destroying striking power. And the Kai's could do that.
And as we all know Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger then all of the Kai's as he was able to take on Kid Buu and could beat him at full power, while the Kais were just killed.
In conclusion, because of the evidence above SSJ3 Goku punches can completely destroy someone with multi-planet durability. As well the shockwaves of his punches landing on someone causes earthquakes, and destroys mountains.
Unless people think the Kai's >>>>> SSJ3 Goku.
But that's not all Goku can put KI into his attacks to increase hitting power.
In pure Physical might like lifting, throwing, and pushing Superman takes that ease because of his insane physical strength and DBZ lack of lifting feats. But from these scans, Goku putting Ki into hitting strength, and the fact Goku is a martial artist and can punch effectively, he takes the Hitting power category
Goku punches literally make shockwaves that shake the earth, and Hitting Strength is more useful in a fight, while physical strength is more useful in saving the day. So Goku wins this category.
Which brings us to the next topic, Martial arts.
Goku is an amazing fighter and he trumps Superman in this category.
Superman's Martial arts
Although Superman does know Martial arts that focuses on presssure points to beat enemies that can go toe to toe with him. Here are some scans of pressure point fighting
Pressure points 1 on 1 img694.imageshack.us/img694/660/supermanpressurepoints.jpg
Using it in combat img23.imageshack.us/img23/1856/smartialarts.jpg
Unforuntely power points WOULD NOT WORK VS GOKU.
Pressure point fighting is when you hit a certain part of the human body and maniuplate hit to produce pain, break bones, or temporarily immobolize a target.
But Goku isn't human he is a Sayain with a different biology, then humans. Here are some examples of why Sayains have different biology then Humans.
Sayains biology =/= Human biology
- Sayains can survive in outer atmospheres for long periods of time
- They can survive and train in increased gravity, while humans cannot. Their internal organs would give out and they would be crushed.
- Sayains can grow tails and get stronger after near-death
Becuase of this different biology they wouldnt have pressure points as humans, and Goku has never shown being slowed down by a pressure point attack, so Supermans martial arts would be useless.
Goku's martial arts
Goku is an amazing martial arts fighter and one of the best ever in Dragon Ball Z, ever since Goku was a kid he trained in martial arts. He has been trained by the Legendary Martial arts Master, Master Roshi in the Turtle School and has been trained by the God King Kai as an adult. Furthermore Goku trained by himself for tournaments and has self-taught himself in martial arts when he left Master Roshi.
Furthermore Goku is a Sayain meaning it's in his instinct to fight, he actually enjoys it. This is a factor because he would enjoy fighting Superman and wouldn't be disouraged.
Kami a god praises Goku on his fighting sense, and that he always evolves and learns the opponents techniques. He would have no trouble doing it to Superman.
God is literally praising Goku for his fighting and tactics.
Goku is a martial arts master and is constantly learning, and always finding out a weakness in his enemy. Goku thinks on his feet in battle, this is seen when he exhales strongly to change the trajectory of his descent and throw off his opponent, Chappa O at the 22nd Budokai.
Goku was able to actually invent a new martial arts style based on animal mimicry during the heat of battle, to counter Muten Roshi's Sui Ken (drunkenfist) at the 21st Budokai. In addition to fighting entire battles at very high speeds and blocking, parrying and countering attacks with blinding speed.
Goku also utilizes grappling moves in certain situations
Kid Goku smart enough Exhales to stop his trajectory
Counters Master Roshi's Drunkfist with his Animal mimicry
Goku Tricks Nappa into a fit of rage so he fights sloppey.
Grappling move " Wall of Jericho" on Tien and the "Full Nelson" on Raditz
Goku also see's weaknesses in his opponents fighting stance, and can exploit that weakness easily. He is a brillian tactician.
Goku exploiting Frieza's inability to sense Ki and uses stealth attacks
Goku exploits Recoome's opening and finishes him quickly, he could do the same to Superman with his lack of martial arts
One of Goku's abilities is to sense emotions and malice, meaning he can tell when an attack is coming, and this would help greatly vs Superman
In DBZ fights they fight in martial arts and can block, dodge, parry, grab and attack at incredible speed. If you watched the Anime you will see there intense fights, here are some scans of Goku martial arts fighting at incredible speed, and intensity.
However Superman is mostly a brawler and doesn't have the skills to combat martial arts masters. For example Wonder woman who is -Weaker
-Slower in flight speed (Only Supersonic/Hypersonic)
However due to her having amazing combat skills and speed she goes toe to toe with a bloodlusted Superman(who thinks Wonder Woman is Doomsday) in Infinite Crisis, and they go blow for blow, with actually Wonder Woman using her martial arts to get the advantage.
Then went to go to Maxwell Lord.
Wonder Woman who is weaker then Superman, and has less abilities held her own against him when he was bloodlusted, because she was a superior fighter.
Goku is a superior fighter to Superman which will give him a giant advantage in the fight.
Goku has been a martial artist all his life and that's the only thing he has known to do. Training and honing his skill when he was kid, to an adult.
Goku was trained by martial arts master, Master Roshi, Self-Taught himself, trained under Mr.Popo and Kami, and trained under King Kai.
Kid Goku almost had a tie with Master Roshi ("An Invincible martial arts Master")
Taught by Popo and Kami to fight with his senses, and feel the atmosphere.
Trained by King Kai
Furthermore Goku fights martial arts through instinct and feels the life force(KI) of his opponent when he cannot see them, and feels the movement and anticipates the attacks of who he is fighting.
Feeling the air currents when he can't see, and determining Yakons moves.
Knocking a man out and showing control over his power.
Other scans of Goku martial arts fighting with villains.
Because of Goku's martial arts, fighting ability, and overall training he should beat Superman. Goku trained his entire life, while Superman had to go to school, and be Clark Kent with his wife Lois.
Reminds me of Haggar vs Zangief, and how Zangief didn't have to have a normal life like Haggar allowing him more training, and becoming a better fighter.
Goku uses various types marital arts, techniques, uses weaknesses to his advantage and always come out ahead even facing stronger opponents. Goku trained by gods and masters, is definitly the better fighter.
Contrary to popular beleif Superman can get tired. If he's drained from all his solar reserves from constant battle he can get tired., but he really does possess super stamina.
Superman getting tired when fighting someone who can go toe to toe with him like Doomsday.
And yes it is well known that as in Super Sayain 3 that it takes Goku alot of energy and can get tired after some time.
But his pervious transformations like SSJ and SSJ2 he is used to them and actually grant him enhanced Stamina.
For example Frieza at 50 % power was beating Goku and he was tired and exhausted. He literally couldn't stand after firing the spirit bomb. But when he went SSJ his power and stamina completely restored, and he was perfectly fine.
Can't even stand and drained of his KI.
To being perfectly fine.
Nevertheless Superman has shown time after time with his solar powered body he can fight and fight in long battles.
Superman beats Goku in Stamina when he's SSJ3 and has a little better Stamina then Goku in SSJ. Superman takes this category.
This brings us to our next topic, SPEED.
Before we begin there is a giant different between combat speed and flight speed.
Combat speed is punching, kicking, blocking, parrying, countering, and going short distance fast. Flight speed is getting from point A to point B over a long-medium distance. And Note that Combat speed is 100X more useful then Flight speed in a fight.
In fight speed Superman is FTL and it hase been proven and shown many times.
Going at Light speed img809.imageshack.us/img809/89/supermandiesbymoonbusti.jpg
Going Faster then light speed img9.imageshack.us/img9/5134/supermanflightspeed.jpg
Now what people think is that Goku flight speed is only hypersonic speed, WELL THAT IS COMPLETETLY WRONG.
Proving Goku's FTL Flight Speed with Feats
In this scan Goku crosses half of Namek in a second. And Namek is the size of Earth.
Light Travels around the Earth 7.486 times/sec, meaning Goku was going at around 1/15th the speed of light.
And that was Base Goku on Namek, who wouldn't hold a candle to base Goku in Majin Buu Saga and didn't even have to go SSJ. Cleay SSJ Goku which is a multiplie of 50X can fly at FTL speeds, and SSJ with 100X and SSJ3 with 400X can fly extremely faster.
Proving Goku's FTL Flight Speed with Math
Note: SnakeWay is 625, 000 Miles, and it took Goku 2 days to reach the end after King Kai's training. Meaning Goku was traveling at a rate of 13, 018 Mph (Mach 17)
AnimeVice user hitsusatsu11 does the math to prove at SSJ Goku can fly at FTL Speeds.
And I do believe Goku can fly at FTL speeds, based off some distance over time feats and scaling using the mach 17 on snake way, and 5000 plv correlation and you can prove he becomes ftl with some math.
Lightspeed= mach 880, 000 therefore goku was (880,000/17) 51764x slower than light at this point that means theoretically he needs to be pvl (51764x 5000) 258 823 529, now his pvl when he FIRST turned ssj was 150 000 000 (official, in daizenshu) so its clear he vastly surpasses the lightspeed threshold for travelling speed (and I am using a linear correlation, it is likely closer to exponential based on the time he ran it with a plv << 1000, then ran it again with a plv of around 6,000), and yet Goku's combat speed is much much faster still.
Based of Goku's speed on snake way with a PL of 5000, he would need to be at a PL of 258 823 529 to go Light speed. First time Goku is 150 000 000, so SSJ Goku in the Cell Saga would be Faster then Light.
Super Sayain Gotenks joking around foes way beyond FTL circling the globe dozens of times in a second, and he circles a much bigger radius around the Earth.
However because of Goku's instant transmission, his flight speed is pretty much instantaneous seeing how he can reach reach anywhere in the Galaxy. Meaning Goku Flight speed > Superman's Flight Speed. + He can use instant Transmission in combat
However Flight speed isn't as useful in a fight, unless you are catching up to someone. Combat speed is what people actually use in a fight, and Goku's Combat Speed is one of the best in all of superhero's and far surpasses his FTL Flight Speed.
Goku as a kid
Goku's combat speed is one of the fastest of all characters. Kid Goku has been going hypersonic combat speed in his fights.
As an adult Goku can go way above FTL combat speed but that will be explained later on.
Kid Goku Dodging Bullets at point black range
Fast enough to Deflect Machine Gun fire with a thin pole
Superman doesn't have the combat speed to deal with Goku, as he fails to catch bullets.
Back to Kid Goku Dodgeing Lasers and "disappearing"
img844.imageshack.us/img844/6876/kidgokudoginglasers2.gif clears buildings
Tapping back and forth so fast he becomes "invisible"
Going so Fast he creates multiple AfterImages of himself
Moving his arms so ast he creates 8 tangible arms to counter Tiens 4 arms
Now See Krillin and Master Roshi (who are both slower then Goku) fighting an entire fight in a 1/10 of a second, reacting and thinking at centisecond. Meaning Goku's reaction time is insane.
Goku later on is trained by Mr. Popo and his combat speed is faster then lightning.
Goku who could dodge lasers, bullets, and fight and react at 1/100th of a second couldn't keep up with PoPo. Lightning travels at 0.5 the speed of light, meaning Kid Goku's combat speed is half of light speed.
As an Adult
Adult Goku's combat speed only increases to outstanding feats.
Kami who is more powerful then Mr. Popo can't keep up with Goku's combat speed at the end of DragonBall. God's eyes can't keep up with Goku's combat speed.
Now let's look at Dragon Ball z Combat speed.
We all know that Piccolo blew up the moon in about 2 seconds. Light takes 1.23 seconds to travel to the Earth from the Moon. And the time it takes the light to refract back to Piccolo, meaning his blast was FTL.
This proves that the Ki attacks in DBZ are FTL anything past Sayain Saga.
Furthermore Raditz dodged a charged Special Beam Cannon that was going as fast as light, at a PL of 1200+
It's literally called, the Beam of Light and if Piccolo can fire a blast that destroys the moon in a second, then his charged more percise beam reached light speed.
And Raditz then goes to say that the Sayains are even stronger then he is.
And Sayain Saga Goku was faster then all of them.
Goku reacting to Nappa mouth beam at a very short distance and Vegeta is amazed he managed to use his the Kamehameha in time.
Now we can see Goku going so fast that Recoome, Burter and Jeice couldn't keep up with him and appears right behind them. And those three had PL of 40, 000+
Now there is proof that like the characters, the beams they use increase in speed, as seen here with Freeza. As Piccolo who destroyed the moon at light speed and fired a faster attack at Raditz, cannot see Freeza's beams. Meaning his Death Beams were way faster then light.
Then Vegeta got a powerlevel boost and could dodge Freiza's attacks. This furthermore proves that the higherpower level the faster you are.
Goku in Base blocks these FTL deathbeams casually.
Goku goes Faster then light speed to break out of Frieza's imprisonment Light ball.
Note: Piccolo compares Goku's speed to a god and explains it.
If Goku was going anything below light speed he would of been hit by the blinding light, but he isn't, and moved faster then light to dodge it a an instant.
SSJ = 50X
SSJ2 = 100X
SSJ3 = 400X
Now i'm not saying Goku is 400X faster then light in combat speed, but he far surpasses Light Speed in base, and the Super Sayains already multiply that.
Although Goku's combat speed doesn't end there
Goku has in his combat speed is the use of Shunkan Ido (Instant Transmission) IT has been shown to go from earth to the afterlife (and in doing so passing the 1 mill KM snake way and Enma Daio's) INSTANTLY. Then IT was used again and this time went from a place beyond heaven, past the 1mill KM's, all the kai planets and all the afterlife, to Namek, which is in another galaxy than earth.
The idea that it is only light speed comes from the english dub error and is wrong. It is truly instant and Goku uses it in combat, and will against Superman
Goku's Flight and Combat speed are both far above faster then light and way above Superman. Goku's cobmat speed would leave Superman in the dust, and Superman would be lucky to land 1 hit on Goku.
WIth Instant Transmission that is overkill, seeing how IT is hundreds of hundred times faster then light.
Goku GT Feats
Let's start thing off with a bang.
Goku busting through a dimension with his Kamehameha, after being trapped in a twisted reality and was about to collapse on them.
Using all of his KI into a Dragon Fist, blows though Super 17 who took down SSj4 Goku and the Z fighters.
GT Goku defeating Super Perfect Cell and Frieza casually in base form.
Goku in GT was much stronger then SSj, or SSJ2 in DBZ.
Goku faced General Rildo and said he was stronger then Buu
And SSJ GT Goku was going toe to toe with General Rildo, which supports the fact that SSJ GT Goku = or > then SSj3 DBZ Goku.
An amazing strength feat is Super Saiyan GT Goku punching Super 17(who is at SSj3 level)
After week's worth of research, asking people, collecting feats and writing this, and doing math. I have come to the conclusion that Goku is without a shadow of a doubt going to win this vs Superman.
To wrap up.
Superman beats Goku in:
- Stamina (When Goku is SSJ3)
- Physical Strength
- Flight Speed (When Accelerating vs Goku's flying)
Goku beats Superman in:
- Destructive Power (No contest)
- Hitting power
- Combat Speed (Way Surpasses Superman)
- Martial Arts
- Combat Speed
- Flight Speed (WHen using Instant Transmission)
Clearly Goku is the winner and should win in the DEATHBATTLE
Thanks for Reading!
Thanks to AnimeVice user hitsusatsu11 for the scans, and the math. He provided alot of information, and I used that information to help me with my argument.
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