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Musings on Naruto: Who Tobi really is Part 2: Why Tobi can't be who he is

8/29/12 12:44pm
tl;dr

 Warning: HEAVY HEAVY spoiles.  I would advise not reading past here if you're not past were the manga is released in the U.S.  We discuss the recent Tobi reveal, but you should really just read it instead of finding everything out here.

So just in case anyone skipped the Tl:DR, if you haven't read up through chapter 599 (or atleast 598) i would highly suggest going and reading it. You can catch up on anything you missed here: www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/

Now if anyone here has read my stuff before, you would know i do in depths ananlysis of stuff. What you probably don't know though, is contrary to what happens with most people, i do my best work when im actually angry at something. And boy am i angry at something right now. I would like to state a disclaimer that this topic is not written by rage, but rather is written in a highly angry, yet logical manner. If you have any disagreements with anything i say here, please let me know in the comments and i'll be happy to address your complaints. And since i might get this, i included the picture of Tobi's face in the thumbnail because i as reasonably certain that you couldn't tell who it was just from the picture (honestly if they hadn't said the name, there was about 4 Uchiha in the series who he looks near identical to, and he also has a striking resemblance to Gaara's dad (seriously, go look up a picture in the manga and put the 2 side by side.  Their faces are virtually identical)

Ok, i think that's enough buffering so that people can see the spoiler warning without the spoilers. So if anyone else here has read the latest chapter of Naruto, you would know that after literally years of waiting, the most popular theory as to who Tobi was has been proved correct.  Yes, Tobi is indeed Obito.  My first reaction was to stand up and yell "Are you kidding me!?" (which illicited a odd look from my roommate).  Don't get me wrong, i have nothing against Obito, it's just that there are several people who are far more likely to actually be Tobi than Obito, and furthermore, after some of the relatively more recent revelas in the series, it was virtually confirmed that Tobi COULDN'T be Obito, and that the author making Tobi's identity be Obito was a blatent attempt to appeal to his remaining fans (or maybe a secret worry that he would lose the majority of his fan base if Tobi wasn't Obito).  But that's only speculation, here we're dealing with facts, so i present: REASONS THAT TOBI CANNOT BE OBITO (said in epic Egoraptor voice.  you know the one.)

Reason 1: The motive and the Psyche of Tobi!

Or rather in Obito's case, a distinct lack thereove.  If you go back and read the original Kakashi flashback, Obito was nothing like Tobi.  He had none of the same beliefs, and had absoloutly no motive to do what he is doing now.  Obito was a peacful happy kid (more or less) and Tobi is a vengful, brooding, and slightly sarcastic man.  The difference personality wise is night and day.  And motive?  Tobi's motive changes everytime he's questioned about why, and you start to half believe he's just doing it for the funof it.  The biggest stretch that i could think of for Obito having a motive for all this is that he was horrified by the war and wants to make sure that it never happens again.  While the motive is deffinitly the most reasonable transition to make, the Psyche change would be virtually impossible.  If there was to be one, it would be when that rock fell on him, but rather he seems almost cheerful as he's (supposedly) crushed to death.  No evidence of what he'll become.  If you notice the neutral face of the original Obito was one of a slightly cheeful kid.  The neutral face of Tobi (as shown in thumbnail) was that of "I would very much like to kill the entire world".  Addmitidly, still the most plausable aspect, so an argument could be made for this transition.

2: The Power level is over 9000!!!!!!!!

As Obito, he was easily the weakist kid on the block.  As Tobi, he can beat the whole block without breaking a sweat.  He goes from someone who doesn't have much talent or potential to becoming one of (if not the) most powerful ninja in the world.  But he does this in about 2 years.  Not even getting into the continuity issue yet, how does someone like him get good enough to easily take on the Fourth Hokage in just a matter of 2 years?  And not only that, but the ammount of knowledge he would have had to gain in 2 years is astounding given all he knows about the tailed beasts.   What he does is virtually impossible (but not wholly.  This is the second most believable aspect)

3: Continuity issues!

So those first 2 things could have been believable, but here is where things get thrown compleatly out the window.   One of the most glaring issues is the Fourth Mizukage.  It's confirmed that Tobi was controlling the Mizukage using a Jutsu that wasunique to Uchiha Shusui's eyes.  However despite Tobi's habit for collecting eyes, both eyes were other wise accounted for.  And since Obito's eyes are space-time jutsu, not Genjutsu, he can't have been controlling the Mizukage.  In addition, it's implied that the Fourth Mizukage was controlled for a very long time. This would be up to the point right after Obtio became Tobi, and possibly even before.  Addmitedly that last part is conjecture, but highly likely conjecture.   Also, the original Madara knew Tobi, and therefore Obito.   But considering that Madara only survived for a little while after his battle with the First Hokage, this would be virtually impossible, as both first and Second were dead before Obito was even born.  This would be streatching themeaning of "a short time after" to it's limit.  But it's also confirmed that Tobi has the First Hokage's cells too.  So where did he get those?   Another big whole in the psyche issue is that Tobi helped Itachi kill the Uchiha because he was "someone who held a grudge against the family".  While it could be theoretically possible that Obito could want to go for the whole Moon's Eye plan because of the events at the bridge, there is nothing anywhere supporting him having a dislike of the Uchiha.  The last problem i'll discuss is Konan's explanation of Tobi's Jutsu.  It doesn't fit withen the bounderies of Kamui.  Basically  the constraints Konan noticed and Tobi confirmed would make it so that Kamui doesn't work period.  

I know there are several other issues but these are the one's that came to mind so the y  must be important.   Normally i wouldn't cry foul on continuity issues (it is a manga afterall) but every other time there's been a big surprise reveal (the Itachi reveal for example) it's all made sense in retrospect.  But when you stop to think about this, it makes no sense at all!  So i present to you:

 A list of awesome people who are far better choices for Tobi than Obito!!! (also said in egoraptor voice)

These are in no particular order, but im just going to start off with this guy cause i was one of the pioneers of this theory: Danzo!!!  Wait, Danzo?  How could he be Tobi?  I wrote a huge blog about this ages ago, and you can see that here if your interested: www.screwattack.com/news/musings-about-naruto-who-tobi-really  It was only disproved when it was revealed Tobi uses Kamui, but given that Danzo has Shusui's eye, it's still theoretically possible, but i would be even more disgusted than with the current Obito state if he did that now.  The psyche and motive are absoloutly perfect and that was one of the biggest things going for it.

And next possible being is..... A white zetsu clone of Madara!  This would actually make sense, as he essentially IS madara, but it allows for how he's so much weaker and "he wants to become a complete form".  This is one of the more iffy theories, as while there's nothing against it, there's also very little for it.  It makes sense, but Kishi tends to imply those type of stuff before hand.

But what would probably be the best would be Izuna, Madara's brother.  Seeing as he lost his eyes, it would explain why he needed all those sharingan.  It's never confirmed he died (well he technically was in one of the Data books, but Obito was confirmed dead there too....) and given that he was on par with Madara, it would explain his knowledge and how he survived so long. 

There's a few more characters who were less likely Tobi, so i'll just leave it at those 3.  It almost seems like Tobi was originally going to be someone else, and making Tobi Obito was an attempt to appeal to a dwindling fanbase.  But i would like your opinions on it!  If you have anything you disagree with, anything you agree with, think im an idiot, think im a genius, or think that penguins are amazing leave a comment! (dont actually just leave a comment about penguins...) Thanks all!

-Agatio

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g1 DISCUSSIONS

Kenshiro3

August 29, 2012 - 3:01pm

Called it YEARS ago... and it make's perfect sense. Obito was LEFT to die by his comrades, likely captured, & most DEFINITELY tortured. You would be surprised at the psychologically transformative power of grief, sorrow, bitterness, hopelessness, anguish & rage (all things obito/tobi have in abundance) Among catalysts for psychological trans formations there are none higher.

Also You have to have been blind not to see Masashi building Obito up as Tobi from day one. One could argue that the only reason for Obito's existence was as a set up for Tobi & as Primary Tobi Suspect number one... .later they he added Danzo but Danzo was an obvious red herring leaving Obito (though presumed dead) the ONLY possible suspect.

"Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth" - Sherlock Holmes

Thejackel79

August 29, 2012 - 8:48pm

To be fair almost everyone was calling it years ago. (I used to be on the Naruto forums back in 07, 08)

Kenshiro3

August 29, 2012 - 9:10pm

that's my point though... it was so fucking obvious that pretty much everyone already KNEW.

Agatio

August 29, 2012 - 3:11pm

Except Kishi said in an interview that Obito was definitely dead. And plus, his right side was completely gone? there's no way that eye could have survived. "Once you've eliminated the impossible..." I eliminated this cause it WAS impossible, then he went and did it anyway.

Kenshiro3

August 29, 2012 - 9:09pm

in a sense the Obito Kakashi & everyone else new IS. He died along with all his dreams & hopes, crushed to death under that boulder.

As for his injuries... Masashi Kishmoto's love & penchant for Plot no Jutsu renders that entire argument invalid. He will just pull how he survived straight out of his ass... which is the status quo for this series. Ass pulling is so common in Naruto that they gave it a name.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AssPull

Agatio

August 29, 2012 - 9:23pm

I know, and i hate it when he does that. He's just managed to avoid it for most of the big plot points so far. If it turns out he really is the same Obito (not a Orochimaru clone or something) i will be exceptionally annoyed.

And the question Kishi got asked was physically dead, so that could allow for some clone BS.

Kenshiro3

August 29, 2012 - 9:32pm

physically dead? That Doesn't mean much in the Naruto universe either... thanks again to "Plot no Jutsu" death is cheap in the Naruto universe... cheaper than most. Hell I wouldnt be surprised if Tobi ISNT a clone... and is instead just Orochimaru's personal Frankenstein. A corpse he tinkered, toyed, and experimented with eventually bringing it back to life in an effort to steal the secrets and kekeigenkai of the Uchiha clan. It would also explain the seeming bleeding effect of Madara's memories & personality that Tobi/Obito suffers from... it would also explain why his outlook changed so drastically.

Agatio

August 29, 2012 - 10:40pm

Honestly i would be fine with anything but just straight Obito. Im sooooo hoping he does an asspull next week. That website you sent me to was great BTW.

Kenshiro3

August 29, 2012 - 10:46pm

TV Tropes is awesome ;)

Kaibaman41

August 29, 2012 - 2:06pm

It's very logical for Tobi/Fake Madara to be Obito. We saw his backstory short and although silent pretty effective. Ok so we see his back story twice in Kakashi's Origin and Obito's Origin. Obito was like the Naruto of Kakashi's group, except weaker then Naruto this is evident due to Obito unable to beat Gai sensei when Sasuke could defeat Rock Lee. Their's two ways Obito turned out the way he was currently or a mix of both. One it was during the war, when Obito got stuck under the giant rock he could have been captured by the opposing country Kakashi's team was attacking. Also it is very likely Obito became a test subject by Orochimaru, after all the recently revived Sannin has told Sasuke he knows a lot of the Uchiha Clan and is leading Sasuke somewhere.

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