Who's stronger Ultimate Gohan or Super Saiyan 3 Goku?

Posted on March 10, 2013 - 1:18pm by Kakarot88

TLDR;

Who is Stronger Mystic Gohan or Goku? 

 

At the risk of alienating readers here is the answer:

Goku. Period.

 

Logic and an interview with Yūsuke Watanabe (co script writer with Akira Toriyama on Battle of Gods) interview leads us to this one conclusion.

 

"When I participated in the meetings, there was already talk of, “we’d like to come out with a being surpassing Super Saiyan 3. It would be a Super Saiyan God”. 

— Yūsuke Watanabe, GetNavi May 2013 Issue (read full interview--> http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/getnavi-may-2013-the-top-notch-cast-and-staff-talk/

 

Who is Stronger Ultimate Gohan or SS3 Goku? 

 

At the risk of alienating readers here is the answer:

Goku. Period.

 

 

Logic and an interview with Yūsuke Watanabe (co script writer with Akira Toriyama on Battle of Gods) interview leads us to this one conclusion.

 

First, why People think Ultimate Gohan is stronger:

 

Goku states he does not think he could have beaten fat buu:

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/477/10/

 

HOWEVER, Goku was holding back:

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/477/11/

 

He did not go all out because he wanted to give the kids a go at Buu plus Goku is dead and did not want to interfere!

 

And later openly states he could have killed Fat Buu:

 

However, when Goku and Vegeta are inside Buu and remove Fat Buu reverting Buuhan back to Super Buu (the one Gohan fought) Goku states that he is weaker than Super Buu:

 

And Gohan was winning against Super Buu

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c013/3.html

 

SO that means Gohan was stronger cuz he was beating Super Buu!

 

That is also wrong for 2 reasons:

1st Goku was sparing Vegeta’s feelings in case the two needed to fuse again because 2nd Buu’s power although able to be sensed was still unknown as to its depths:

  1. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c001/10.html

  1. From the very first issue of the American "Shonen Jump", dated: Vol. 1, #1, January 2003:

"ASK AKIRA TORIYAMA!

From 1998 to 2002, the DRAGON BALL and DRAGON BALL Z monthly comics received thousands of letters from fans in the U.S., Canada, and around the world. We've taken the most interesting questions from the letters and asked Akira Toriyama himself!

...

Q: What is Majin Buu's power level?

 

A: The frightening thing about Majin Buu is his unknown, unfathomable power. Whether it's actually not that much, or whether it's really stupendous, majin Buu himself probably doesn't know the answer."

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17921

 

 

Furthermore, Gotenks was winning against Super Buu too and lost when the fusion split.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c014/4.html

 

 

The kids even say Gohan is not that much greater than Super Gotenks

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c013/7.html

 

being brats…maybe…but there is a lot more!

 

NOW, when Buu absorbed people he kept getting stronger, so when Buu lost fat Buu he should have become weaker:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c005/7.html

 

BUT that is NOT what happens! Buu gets STRONGER!:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c005/13.html

 

AND becomes the MORE powerful Original Buu (aka Kid Buu):

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c006//

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c006/2.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c006/3.html

 

Fat Buu was actually weaker and more docile because Original Buu absorbed Dai Kaioushin!:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c006/4.html

 

Goku could have killed Original Buu who is more dangerous than Super Buu in an instant as a SS3 had he been at full power and not fighting Buu as Vegeto and before that.

 

BUT here is some of the clearest proof Goku is stronger from the manga itself:

When Buu reverts back to Super Buu with Piccolo’s powers absorbed  Goku says “I’m disappoint Gohan himself could beat you now”

http://www.mangaeden.com/en-manga/dragon-ball/503/10/

 

that IMPLIES Gohan is weaker: because everyone Buu absorbed was supposed to make him stronger: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c004/2.html

if Gohan were stronger Goku would not have said “even Gohan can beat you,” he’d have said “even I can beat you now.”

 

BUT wait there is more!

 

When Goku goes SS3 EVERYONE in heaven and hell and earth felt Goku’s power: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v40/c002/7.html

 

AND when Super Buu came about the same thing happened:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c001/4.html

BUT nobody feels Gohan’s power unless they were in Heaven, until Gohan get to Earth: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c011/4.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c011/5.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c011/6.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c011/11.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c011/13.html

 

The only person outside the heavenly realm who could sense Gohan was Buu!

 

And all the Z warriors are adept at feeling insignificantly small ki or great ki unpowered or powered up

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c013/8.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c001/4.html

 

Also, the Nameks knew of Kaioshin and what had been going on which arguably implies that they can sense what is going on in the heavenly realm meaning Gohan’s power went unsensed by Piccolo until he got to Earth. Meaning Gohan is again weaker than Goku:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c011/8.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v42/c011/9.html

Furthermore

Goku NEVER says Gohan is stronger than him and when someone is he always gets really excited and says so: http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v41/c011/7.html

 

In addition, Gohan gets ALL of his potential unlocked beyond his natural limits…that right there means Gohan is at his limit which is greater than normal but still not that he is limitless.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/dragon_ball/v40/c007/10.html

 

LASTLY Because Yūsuke Watanabe (co script writer with Akira Toriyama on Battle of Gods) said so!!

In an interview  Yūsuke Watanabe says no being was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku until Battle of Gods. He does not say nothing was stronger than Ultimate Gohan becuase Goku at Super Saiyan 3 was already stronger:

"When I participated in the meetings, there was already talk of, “we’d like to come out with a being surpassing Super Saiyan 3. It would be a Super Saiyan God”. 

— Yūsuke Watanabe, GetNavi May 2013 Issue (read full interview--> http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/getnavi-may-2013-the-top-notch-cast-and-staff-talk/

 

AND that makes sense because Toriyama wanted to end the series with Gohan but felt Goku was more suited for the role and continued writing Goku's character accordingly: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/intended-end/majin-buu/

 

Hope that helps. People will disagree and call me a hack and likely say I know nothing but I think the above reasoning speaks for itself.

*******************************************************************************************************

One more thing if you have ever seen Wrath of the Dragon (American) aka 龍拳爆発!!悟空がやらねば誰がやる Ryū-Ken Bakuhatsu!! Gokū ga Yaraneba Dare ga Yaru Dragon Fist Explosion!! If Goku Won’t Do it, Who Will?


It takes place after the Majin Buu saga, much like the current movie Battle of Gods coming out March 30, and in it Goku pwns Hirudegarn

 

While Vegeta, SS3 Gotenks and Gohan (elder kai’s power upgrade) get thrown about like rag dolls.

 

(Here’s a clip of what I am talking about with the highlights and no dialogue and diff music: http://youtu.be/rzVxmYUVeL8?t=1m6s
 


Akira Toriyama approved of the script:

 

“Q: What work do you do on the films, Sensei?”

 

“A: I check the plot and script that gets sent to me from Toei Animation. I also do some character designs and touch-ups, as well as altering the names and such.”


http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/daizenshuu-6-akira-toriyama-super.


Thus, at least in one alternate reality Goku is clearly stronger than Gohan because the aside from Battle of Gods those movies according to Toriyama: “I take the movies as “stories in a different dimension from the main story of the manga”. I’m entirely just an audience member for them.”

 

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One more thing, what about power levels and this chart:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/12/124493/2588155-dbz_all_powerlevels...

Those are NOT official power levels and directly conflict with what author Akira Toriyama said in his interviews.

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