DEATH BATTLE! - Ivy VS Orchid
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-- Jordan Lange (Animator) on YouTube
And it isn't impossible that Ivy cant fight up close, why would she have attacks that can draw people in as well as push away?
Well given that I did provide a video showing Orchid being knocked out of a her fire cat form, as no part of her body was shifting back into human form and her paws were in the air, I'd say I did just prove DB wrong already. I know that link I provided didn't mention SC or Ivy, which is fine because there is to many fantasy characters to reference, and alchemy also, as it includes many different types of magic, it means one would want to develop defenses against the same, so yes, Ivy could have countered the frog spell as it is a transformation type spell, and shes and she is a master alchemist, meaning she could do worse to Orchid. Again, she created a soul, that is far and above what Orchid is. And again, Ivy deflected a bullet with her foot, she didn't turn the gun aside.
But what do you mean by 'no power scaling?' Is that another phrase for handicap the better fighter so the lesser can win, because we need to promote the reboot of a dead game after all. Here is an example of swords vs tonfas, just one Im sure there are better out there but I have something else to do http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMBiSDJ3pEg
But I have to say there are a lot of inconsistency's with their 'resarch'. For example, the WW vs Rouge fight. I know they said that Rouge absorbed Juggernauts power once, BUT did they describe what happed to Rouge after? Juggernaut was unaffected and proceeded to beat the hell out of her, I looked into it a little bit, but every time Rouge attempted to drain someone more powerful that her, she always suffers for it, so aside from WW who should have won, Im starting to think that Wiz and Boomstick are not above making up facts and omitting inconvenient ones for favored characters, maybe not all the time, but they did here and before. Another example of the discrepancies, the only place I could find that shows Orchid with lightsaber tonfas is devianart.com http://www.deviantart.com/art/IMVUart-KI3-B-Orchid-Intro-304312975
Naruto vs Jin Kazama (Tekken)
Nightcrawler vs Kid Devil.
I've presented contrary evidence on the forum before too, and yeah, it was ignored. You make some interesting points. However, if they did respond, I'd guess they'd say this:
http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Alchemy -- That wiki describes how "Alchemy" works in a different story universe. It describes a non-combat feat, and it doesn't even mention Ivy or Soul Calibur in the references section.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dE3yccV6Q4 -- 1) They typically ignore feats that happen in fighting games if it's related to in-game mechanics, like blocking, so they probably wouldn't care about this. 2) It could easily be argued that Glacius only hit Orchid because her attack was ending and therefore she was phasing back in and thus vulnerable again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax7JnyT65nI -- 1) This isn't showing Ivy doing anything. No power scaling allowed. 2) This is a glitch that happened because Mitsurugi was trying to grab at the exact moment the super attack was going off. He didn't block, chop, or counter the bullet -- he avoided it by countering the attack with a throw, and the graphics screwed up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMz_Z0Xq-2I -- They indeed gave the weapon advantage to Ivy when the fight was at range. But close in, unlike a real whip sword, Ivy's weapon turns into a short sword, and that is why the tonfas gave Orchid the advantage. Once she got in on Ivy, the tonfas were a better choice.
In my opinion, here's what you need to definitively prove DB wrong: Provide a link that shows Orchid getting hit out of her fire cat move MID-MOVE by an attack. You showed her getting hit at the end of the move already, but that is easily explained... show her getting hit in the middle of her move and that removes Orchid's primary advantage in the fight, so anyone objective would have to agree with you. But without that link, I don't think your case is strong enough.
Antcow. You most certainly know your shit. They tend to ignore any arguments against them though they're right.
Buzz Lightyear (Toy Story) Vs. Turboman (Jingle All the Way)
Naruto Shippuden Vs. Avatar Aang (Last Airbender)
Whiz! Boomstick! I have definitive proof that Orchids fire cat is not immune to PHYSICAL attacks and BARRIERS, that means Orchid would have died three times over in this episode! I also have proof that soul caliber characters can deflect bullets, and proof that Ivys alchemy skill WOULD have protected her from Orchids magic attacks! Thats because Alchemy has always been about organic/inorganic transformation, not to mention the vast plethora of other skills, Ill provide the link. I dont know where you get the notion that Ivy is weak agains other types of magic, becasue the ONLY people to make that claim is DB itself. This alleged weakness is no where on any battle record, video or gameplay anywhere! If your referring to the Zass/Ivy fight, she lost because her sword was fighting against her, she was distracted and was defeathed becasue she had to control her sword more than usual. There were no magic attacks that explicitly say she was weak against. I also have scans of the comic that details how the first KI tournament actually played out, as I have purchased the entire series and can provide further scans. I can also provide videos depicting aspects of the fight that you did not use, such as how whip swords are real, the martial art that it is apart of and how tonfas are a poor choice against them. They are called urumi, real whip swords, they are tough and flexable, allowing them to bend around tonfas and strike the user itself wounding them. and if they are wrapped around a limb and pull in any direction with still wound the tonfa user. See below for the provided links. And it is impossible to assume Eyedol was at full power given that the story itself declares that he was weakened and submitted to a corporation, that is not an army busting monster! And given that soul caliber fighters are said to fight through armies themselves it cant be assumed that Ivy would be less capable than Orchid. Here is a link to alchemy, this page will provide links that describe how alchemy is a very powerful form of magic, and given that Ivy can create souls, she is a mage of awesome power, which is considerable as only GOD should be able to do that. And Orchid is far from a witch, that title is mentioned nowhere in her bio, but she is a self proclaimed novice, I can provide proof of that as well. http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Alchemy
Here is a link that shows Orchid is vulnerable to PHYSICAL attacks, look at the 10 min mark and watch how Glacious' fist knocks her OUT of the fire cat form. If a fist can do that so can the sharp edge of a sword. There is also a scientific principle that I can elaborate on if you ask. Orchid can phase through ENERGY attacks, but not against anything that presents a PHYSICAL barrier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dE3yccV6Q4
Also here is a link that shows how she is incapable of phasing through solid objects, it happens within the first few seconds so watch how Chief thunder blocks her. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_Pm9RjhMW0
Here is a video that shows that SC characters can deflect bullets, that means Ivy kicking away a bullet is far from impossible. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax7JnyT65nI
And here is a couple of videos that descript real whip swords and how they work and the martial art they are apart of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMz_Z0Xq-2I http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORm0sE7LmTg
You got this fight wrong, and its not the only one, but those are for another time.
Cervantes vs Scorpion The zombie pirate vs the zombie ninja. A twist on a classic battle.
Ghost Rider vs Captain Marvel A demon cursed man vs a boy blessed by gods.
Ash Williams vs Jason Awesome killer of the undead vs a zombie that just won't stay down.
Ichigo Kurosaki vs Yusuke Urameshi Two defenders of the afterlife duking it out in a match to the finish. Which stubbornness will win?
Himura Kenshin vs Vash the Stampede Goofy swordsman or Goofy gunman...... I have no idea who'd win this one.
Gaara vs Byakuya (Bleach).
Obito Uchiha (Naruto) vs. Sosuke Aizen (Bleach)
Naruto vs. Ichigo
Dracula (Castlevania) vs. Kain (Legacy of Kain series)
Blade (Marvel) vs. Alucard (Castlevania)
Vectorman vs. Megaman
Black Cat (Marvel) vs. Catwoman (DC)
Tinkerbell vs. Navi (Legend of Zelda)
Mewtwo vs. Sarah Kerrigan
Ryu vs. Liu Kang (if possible a team battle of Ryu and Ken vs. Liu Kang and Kung Lao)
Judge Dredd vs. The Punisher (Marvel)
Homer Simpson vs. Peter Griffin
Dante (Devil May Cry not the DMC) vs. Spawn
Eyedol (Killer Instinct) vs. Eternal Champion (Eternal Champion) ***BATTLE OF THE CHEAPEST BOSSES OUT THERE!!!
Create these fights
Hulk vs Doomsday
Suske vs Hiei
Mega Man vs Samus
Zero vs Cyborg
Yuske Urameshi vs Ten Shinhan
Jotaro Jostar vs Kenshiro
Apocalypse vs Darkseid
Combo vs Balrog
Wolverine vs Deathstroke
Yujiro Hanma vs Captain American.
1. Naruto vs. monkey D. Luffy
2. Gandalf vs. Dumbledore
3. Silver the hedgehog vs. Mewtwo
4. Green Arrow vs. Hawkeye
5. Arbiter vs. Predator
6. Chell vs. Gordon Freeman
7. Megaman vs. Astroboy
8. Dan Hibiki vs. Hercule Satan
9. ryu vs. liu kang
@ Kirby kid
Oh, and I looked at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3FqI4DKgDg again to check if those views were possibly taken from atop a hill or above the normal terrain level. Look again, they definitely weren't. The first view you get is starting at the surface going up, the next one starts in space and pans down -- different locations, both flat, both showing curvature.
@ Kirby kid
I was going to leave it, but you responded with legitimate questions and points, so I'll address them.
1. The reason I didn't address your Sun claims is because you flat-out told me that if I called it something other than a sun you wouldn't listen to me. Well, if you're going to demand my response, that's the answer: it's not a sun at all, they're just calling it one, just like they're simply calling Kirby's planet a planet when in fact it's tiny. If a STAR is a certain color, then those charts you cited can tell you things about size, mass, etc, but just because something is a certain color DOES NOT MEAN IT IS A STAR -- it could just as easily be a layer of incandescent plasma on top of a ball of magma, destined to extinguish in a few thousand years. Remember, your claim revolves arond trying to scale that "Sun" against Pop Star... and it also revolves around claiming that Shiver Star is in fact Earth... which is somehow also the same size as their system's sun? Weren't you just insisting that Shiver Star was the same size as Pop Star? Your claims are contradictory and nonsensical. No, sorry, there's only one way to explain this solar system in realistic terms -- these are small objects, and the thing they call the "Sun" is definitely not a star in scientific terms.
2. You can say that my claim is "completely false" all you want, but it clearly shows an 8-inch Kirby standing there, then the camera pans up a RIDICULOUSLY small distance and you can clearly see the curvature of their "planet". In your counter-claim, the camera never panned up and the horizon was obstructed by trees and stuff, so there's no valid comparison to be made in those shots. This goes for your other counter-claim with Metaknight in view below as well. Show me the camera panning up without seeing the world's curvature, and then you might have a case here.
3. They can call it a planet all they want, but it makes no difference. The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles used to call themselves "amphibians" all the time in the cartoon -- they were wrong too. There's lots of sci-fi so-called laser guns that totally aren't lasers at all. In FF13, they call Cocoon a planet, even though it totally isn't a planet. In Stargate SG1, the bad guys call themselves gods and are worshipped as such, but they're totally not gods. In Star Trek, the Q call themselves omnipotent, but they aren't. See where I'm going with this? Just because they call it something does not make it so.
4. He's showing off his punching power in a mini-game. He never demonstrates that level of punching power in the game itself. That's what I'm saying you never showed. What Kirby does in his mini-games is no different than what Cyrax or Smoke does in their fatalities, and believe me, neither of them are planet busters. Neither is Kirby. Remember "Test Your Might" in MK? Sonya Blade can punch through a solid block of DIAMOND with her bare hands? That would literally mean she has a lifting strength FAR greater than 100 tons and a body durable enough to survive impacts with more force than the Space Shuttle's rocket engine delivers at take-off. I guess that's canon to you too? After all, she WAS testing her might, right?
5. And you have no way to prove that he wasn't dead. Therefore you cannot use this as a durability feat. Agreed, let's move on.
6-7. THANK YOU. You are the first person on DB that has seen reason with this whole "combat-speed-fallacy" crap. Even if we never agree about Kirby, please know that I give your reasoning skills enormous props.
8. OK, let's take that cutscene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQZgjtqTNQk) and break it down. We can see Kirby in all of those, so we have a perfect measure of scale in those scenes. Starting around 10:54, you can see that there are white shards, stationary in reference to the "reality" that's being shattered in the scene, then Kirby is snatched up and proceeds to escape the dimension's destruction. Watch at 11:12, and you'll see a white shard fly by Kirby (now travelling away from the destruction) in the FOREGROUND, very close to the plane that Kirby is travelling on -- it crosses the screen in 1/10th of a second. The screen is 5.5 x Kirby's width in length, so since we know Kirby is 8 inches in diameter, we know that the shard flew about 44 inches in 1/10th of a second. Remember, we've just seen that the shard is stationary, so we can use this speed to directly judge Kirby's speed as he runs away from the dimensional-destruction-wave-thingy. With some simple conversion, 44 inches in .1 seconds equals 36.67 feet per second, which is almost exactly 25 miles per hour. Yes, Kirby is flying at a mind-shattering pace of 25 miles per hour in this sequence. If you'd care to tell me where I'm going wrong here, I'd love to hear it. Far as I can see, this is massively SUB-SONIC. FTL? Hah.
"Speed wise, Kirby's Warpstar was able to cross the entire galaxy in Kirby 64 in seconds. (www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hR00dm53zk) 8:20. But you know what, I'm sure you have a ridiculous understatement to this so ill end it off with this." -- Yeah, you called it, I do have a ridiculous understatement here, and it's an obvious one. All that showed at 8:20 is the Warpstar leaving the atmosphere and flying away, NOT traversing the entire galaxy. If you're referring to him summoning the Warpstar, well, there's no way to tell how the vehicle got from where it was to where it ended up (magic summoning? teleportation? pocket dimension? FTL travel? who knows?). And again, your assertion of FTL travel in this case hinges on the size of the solar system to be large, which I maintatin that it is not.
"I think this is where the statement "lets agree to disagree" becomes very useful. ... Again, either way, you'll be wrong." -- You can't try to end a debate by agreeing to disagree, AND try to continue it by saying that I'm wrong. "Agree to disagree" means "I disagree with you, but I can't prove why I'm right to you, and I never can, so let's drop the issue in a civil manner." I'm willing to do this. My initial question was answered long ago -- why do people think Kirby is an FTL planet buster -- and while I may not agree with their reasoning, I now understand it.
They go up against powerful opponents all the time and won Batman defeated the justice league and darkside, Nightwing has defeated countless superhumans so has Red Hood, Red Robin and Robin so they won't lose just like that so ironfist may not win because he has to use chi energy to reach superhuman strength.
1. There is no such thing as a "tiny" sun. Well, at least not by our standards. In order to be classified as a sun you would have to be a few KM bigger than the length of Jupiter. And you seem to be missing a point that I have already made, A SUNS COLOR DICTATES ITS SIZE. This sun is yellow, which if we go by the smallest yellow star found (our sun) then it would be around 1,392,000 km long. (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/hgifs/HRdiagram.GIF) and if you had taken the time to look at the link that shows HOW A SUN IS CLASSIFIED then you would know this. I gave you a link of how to classify a sun and YET you reply to me without taking what I had given you into consideration. Come on now you have to be better than that. And stop with the conflicting statements your making. You saying that a sun is smaller than what you think is a Planetoid is downright idiotic, and goes against your "physics" claim about Popstar being a Planetoid. It just shows that physics can't be used in this argument. But if you want to explain how a sun is smaller than a Planetoid be my guest. You'll be wrong either way.
2. That just mean that they are on a higher plane then the surrounding area. In other cutscenes with farther distances than what we see in that cutscene don't show curves in the land (www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Zt55KXX-Tw) 0:28-0:30/especially 1:09/2:25/especially 3:14/especially 3:58/ especially 5:08-6:43. I think they were on a hill or something that made the area look slanted, but with all these images, distances farther than the Milky Way wishes cutscene are shown, which proves that your claim is COMPLETELY false.
3. Foolish. Unbelievably foolish. If you don't care about what the characters say, than what about instruction booklets.
If calling them planets over and over again throughout different games drives you crazy, get over yourself, because the fact of the matter is that Planet Popstar is a planet. Not a Planetoid, not a comet, not an asteroid, but a planet.
4. Difference being that Kirby's OFFICIAL ANNIVERSARY HANDBOOK STATES THAT KIRBY CAN DO THIS. I have already stated what the booklet itself says about the minigame. "Showing off your punching power" this alone plus the various games that Kirby does this through proves that Kirby can crack his planet. There is your explanation that you said I had "yet to explain" even though I had ALREADY explained it before.
5. You have no way to prove that after death he can perform this feat. But this subject bores me so let's continue onto the more important points.
6-7. I won't use the combat speed fallacy link anymore, as i have already realized how false it is.
8. Kirby and Metaknight both keep track of FTL moving objects, such as when Metaknight deflected 2 energy blasts while moving at FTL speeds, and yes the dragons that the entire cast rides on are in fact FTL because they keep up with the Lor Starcutter which can cross through parallel dimensions in seconds. (www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQZgjtqTNQk)- oh also notice how at the beginning of the video there are no Curvatures in the planet :). If we look at Metaknight at 0:27 we see him on a hill with the hill curving right next to him. Does that mean the entire planet is curving before him? No, that just means he is at a higher point then the surrounding area, which if you look throughout the video has no curve that makes the planet smaller in any way. Anyways the dragons they ride on at 8:50 can both out race the destruction of an entire Dimension at 11:12 and fly by the star cutter at the same time, which if you've forgotten, can cross through parallel dimensions in seconds. And while moving at those speeds Metaknight deflected 2 energy blasts at 8:55 and again at 9:06 before being blasted for plot convenience. Even Kirby was able to see these blasts while traveling at that speed.
I know no other way to convince any further. I have proven that Kirby can indeed crack his own planet through the use of his official handbook and that should be enough evidence over all for destructive capability.
Speed wise, Kirby's Warpstar was able to cross the entire galaxy in Kirby 64 in seconds. (www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hR00dm53zk) 8:20. But you know what, I'm sure you have a ridiculous understatement to this so ill end it off with this.
I think this is where the statement "lets agree to disagree" becomes very useful. You have no way to disprove me however, as I have given evidence to Kirby's planet cracking feat through the use of his official handbook, and if we know anything, it's not to go against anything official. You and me both have no way to scale the Kirbyverse, but I believe Metaknight and Kirby's Warpstar are both FTL. I don't know any other way to prove it to you, your just impossible to put information through, so this is where are argument ends for me. If you have something to say, go ahead, but I'm done. Lousy's blog is explains why Kirby is a planet buster as have I, so go read Lousy's blog again and try and come up with some thing that makes sense. Again, either way, you'll be wrong.