moviebob's Wall
5/22/13 11:57am
Is Bob happy about the announcment of the Xbox One?
4/12/13 11:26pm
Ivan the Intern takes over hosting duties this week to talk about a second Gaming Crash that some think is all-but-inevitable.
zgamer007: I've been thinking about another crash happening for a while now as I've been playing video games for over 30 years now and have seen a lot of stuff in my life and even took a hiatus from gaming starting with the first 3D generation (Saturn, N64, PS) until 2010 when after 4 years of watching AVGN & ScrewAttack videos the passion was fired up within me again and made me buy a DS Lite in the summer followed by a PS2 in October, and a PSP in November. The following year I got my Wii in November and the year after that in December 2012 I finally got my PS3 after having bought a lot of games for it since 2010 because I knew back then I wanted one.
The main reason for my hiatus was something very similar to what I see happening today. Back then I loved 2D games and when I saw how at Nintendo was all gung ho on 3D games and using their new technology to the max that they discouraged 2D games for the N64, I lost interest. Since I'm a lagger when it comes to buying new consoles, I saw how the Saturn was failing in the U.S. & how other than the Shining Force & other Shining games and Fire Pro 6men Scramble (which didn't even make it over here) were the only games I was interested in, I just wasn't interested. The N64 lost my interest for the above explained reasons, and I was never excited by the Playstation since it didn't have too many games that appealed to me either other than the original Rayman that I wanted to play, Gex, Legacy of Kain, and maybe 1 or 2 other games. Wrestling games had all transitioned to 3D (except for Fire Pro G which was an import) and I wasn't into RPGs that much back then (which had some 2D games). And I hated what had Konami did to Castlevania starting with Symphony of the Night.
It was obvious that the bit wars continued into 3D graphics as well and that the switchover happened pretty fast. I thought the 16-bit era should have lasted longer as with the NES which in Japan started in 1983 and ended in 1994 (though Famicom consoles were manufactured until 2003). At the very least I thought we should have gone from 16-bit to an era of 2D 32-bit before delving into 32/64-bit 3D as all the games on Sega's System 32 arcade hardware were. But that didn't happen.
The similarity between then & now is that just like then when companies were more concerned with rushing to get more bits & move to 3D than they were for the games that would result, the same is happening with these high production games. Companies feel the need to make those high production games that try to play like interactive Hollywood movies and probably cost around the same vicinity to make so they can charge the $60 pricetag that most new games get. They put the price & by association the production of these games over other attributes. And in the end what is forgotten is the entire reason why people want to play games. And it's not only companies who do this but many gamers as well. There are still plenty of "graphics whores" who play HD games only or those who play them for the cinematic feel. After beating a game, their expectations are increased and if they're not met by following games these gamers play, complaints & bad reviews result. And the companies themselves are often on a strict deadline that they fail to take the time to make & bug test their games before releasing them, which results in justified complaints.
In the end, we have a cycle between the developers & gamers that results in what people familiar with TV shows know is called "jumping the shark", when a TV show strays from the original idea that it is no longer recognizable and is beyond repair. Now even though games aren't doomed to failure at this point, the analogy still holds because the original intent of gaming is being lost just like that of a show that jumped the shark. Games were never intended to be judged good/bad or a success/failure based on their graphics or production. Some games in the 80's like the arcade versions of Dragon's Lair or Space Ace used high quality animation that made them like an interactive cartoon but they weren't more successful than others that didn't have these higher production values. Games were rewarded for how fun they were. Even during the bit wars in the 16-bit era, games still thankfully focused more on gameplay than they did on a grand production effort. That is why games that used full motion video on the Sega CD weren't successful & unfortunately the other Sega CD games suffered as a result of Sega focusing its marketing on the FMV games.
I'm not saying that high production on a game is bad though. I think it's good when an idea so good comes out that high production costs for it are warranted. Instead what we have now is both companies & gamers wanting to break previous precedents every time and that just isn't gonna happen, nor is it possible. The solution is to remind gamers why they got into gaming to begin with. Developers need to games that are lower in production costs but are fun to play and aren't a carbon copy of other games in the same genre. Profit is very important as businesses run on it, but don't use that as the primary objective to make a game or set its price. That's what happened when all sorts of non-gaming companies began to develop games for the 2600 in the early 80's that led to the crash. Instead, developers need to use their own love of games on great gameplay & the profits should follow. The childish illusion of games that have better graphics/production are better than those than don't must be shattered because we're now at a point where graphics won't mean shit with how little a noticeable improvement there will be between PS3/360 games & those on the PS4/Xbox One.
Without realizing it, Capcom actually did something very smart back in 2009 & 2010 with their release of Mega Man 9 & 10. They gave us 2 brand new games with 8-bit graphics that were both successful. These games were not only retro in terms of their gameplay but they were also retro in terms of their looks with actual sprite graphics. I was hoping that this would create a trend of brand new 8-bit & 16-bit sprite based games. My personal suggestion would be for companies like Nintendo, Capcom, Sega, Konami, and others to reserve a team of their staff to create new games with those 8-bit & 16-bit sprite graphics. Not only sequels to games in pre-existing franchises but new franchises as well. They would need to make sure that controls & gameplay are good and then charge $30 or $40 for them like in the NES/SNES/Genesis days. This would be a great way of making money between those bigger production developments while showing their fans they still give a crap about all sorts of games, not just those high production ones. Their older fans would appreciate it & it would help in breaking the graphics whore mentality of younger gamers, many of whom have already played older games on emulators & on the Virtual Console.
Nintendo is already relying on the VC a lot as they wait for more Wii U titles to be made, so this would be like that except they wouldn't be living only on past titles anymore. I hear all this talk about how love for retro games is all nostalgic. That's bullshit. Retro is in because it focuses on fun & simplicity, which had been forgotten over the years as production became more & more important, especially simplicity.
When you take the impossibility of a developer always topping the production quality of its last game and combine it with the unbelievably rising costs of being a gamer, that is what makes me think there will be another crash. Gaming has become so damn expensive with the prices of consoles being what they are today and on top of that all the DLC & online membership fees for PS Plus/Xbox Gold. Then there is the cost of craptastic peripherals like Kinect/PS Move and all those collector's editions of games. Where the hell are gamers supposed to have enough money to buy all this shit? Then you have dick moves that rightfully piss off gamers like on-disc DLC that Capcom did or making multiple versions of games like Capcom is also infamous for doing with its fighting games like MvC3 or SF4. One of the moves that pisses me off the most was buying a PSP exclusive only for it to be released on the PS2 (like Secret Agent Clank) or the PS3 (like the God of War games). Or more generally releasing collections of games that were just released a few years ago. In the case of GoW: Ghosts of Sparta it wasn't even a full year that it made its way on the GoW: Origins collection after being released on the PSP. It was a way of Sony to not only piss off its consumers, but also tell them there's no reason to have bought a PSP because the 1st party games will be available on the PS3. And for that reason along with the ridiculous price tag, I won't be buying a Vita.
When you combine the high prices, the dick moves, all the shovelware that you see especially for the DS/3DS & Wii (that would have never received the Nintendo Seal of Quality back in the old days), and the unrealistic expectations and add to them the 2 extra consoles (Ouya & Steambox) that will take away some market share, you have a situation where the abundance of choices can lead to games selling not enough copies to recover development costs. If this happens, the only games worth developing will be multi platform games, which can kill exclusives because they wouldn't be profitable enough to make. And if that happens, then there is no longer a purpose for multiple consoles. Nintendo's first party stuff does well, but we don't know if that's perpetual or not. If Nintendo could get decent 3rd party support, then I think it could weather a crash. I think the 3DS would probably be safe from a crash.
So there's a lot to consider if the industry is to avoid another crash. So far I don't see any concerted effort to avoid one even though the seeds for a 2nd crash have been sown. But the most important thing is to get back to basics (why developers started making games to begin with), which can fix the pricing of games, which then changes the profit structure (something that must happen), and lead to a happier gaming community.
The main reason for my hiatus was something very similar to what I see happening today. Back then I loved 2D games and when I saw how at Nintendo was all gung ho on 3D games and using their new technology to the max that they discouraged 2D games for the N64, I lost interest. Since I'm a lagger when it comes to buying new consoles, I saw how the Saturn was failing in the U.S. & how other than the Shining Force & other Shining games and Fire Pro 6men Scramble (which didn't even make it over here) were the only games I was interested in, I just wasn't interested. The N64 lost my interest for the above explained reasons, and I was never excited by the Playstation since it didn't have too many games that appealed to me either other than the original Rayman that I wanted to play, Gex, Legacy of Kain, and maybe 1 or 2 other games. Wrestling games had all transitioned to 3D (except for Fire Pro G which was an import) and I wasn't into RPGs that much back then (which had some 2D games). And I hated what had Konami did to Castlevania starting with Symphony of the Night.
It was obvious that the bit wars continued into 3D graphics as well and that the switchover happened pretty fast. I thought the 16-bit era should have lasted longer as with the NES which in Japan started in 1983 and ended in 1994 (though Famicom consoles were manufactured until 2003). At the very least I thought we should have gone from 16-bit to an era of 2D 32-bit before delving into 32/64-bit 3D as all the games on Sega's System 32 arcade hardware were. But that didn't happen.
The similarity between then & now is that just like then when companies were more concerned with rushing to get more bits & move to 3D than they were for the games that would result, the same is happening with these high production games. Companies feel the need to make those high production games that try to play like interactive Hollywood movies and probably cost around the same vicinity to make so they can charge the $60 pricetag that most new games get. They put the price & by association the production of these games over other attributes. And in the end what is forgotten is the entire reason why people want to play games. And it's not only companies who do this but many gamers as well. There are still plenty of "graphics whores" who play HD games only or those who play them for the cinematic feel. After beating a game, their expectations are increased and if they're not met by following games these gamers play, complaints & bad reviews result. And the companies themselves are often on a strict deadline that they fail to take the time to make & bug test their games before releasing them, which results in justified complaints.
In the end, we have a cycle between the developers & gamers that results in what people familiar with TV shows know is called "jumping the shark", when a TV show strays from the original idea that it is no longer recognizable and is beyond repair. Now even though games aren't doomed to failure at this point, the analogy still holds because the original intent of gaming is being lost just like that of a show that jumped the shark. Games were never intended to be judged good/bad or a success/failure based on their graphics or production. Some games in the 80's like the arcade versions of Dragon's Lair or Space Ace used high quality animation that made them like an interactive cartoon but they weren't more successful than others that didn't have these higher production values. Games were rewarded for how fun they were. Even during the bit wars in the 16-bit era, games still thankfully focused more on gameplay than they did on a grand production effort. That is why games that used full motion video on the Sega CD weren't successful & unfortunately the other Sega CD games suffered as a result of Sega focusing its marketing on the FMV games.
I'm not saying that high production on a game is bad though. I think it's good when an idea so good comes out that high production costs for it are warranted. Instead what we have now is both companies & gamers wanting to break previous precedents every time and that just isn't gonna happen, nor is it possible. The solution is to remind gamers why they got into gaming to begin with. Developers need to games that are lower in production costs but are fun to play and aren't a carbon copy of other games in the same genre. Profit is very important as businesses run on it, but don't use that as the primary objective to make a game or set its price. That's what happened when all sorts of non-gaming companies began to develop games for the 2600 in the early 80's that led to the crash. Instead, developers need to use their own love of games on great gameplay & the profits should follow. The childish illusion of games that have better graphics/production are better than those than don't must be shattered because we're now at a point where graphics won't mean shit with how little a noticeable improvement there will be between PS3/360 games & those on the PS4/Xbox One.
Without realizing it, Capcom actually did something very smart back in 2009 & 2010 with their release of Mega Man 9 & 10. They gave us 2 brand new games with 8-bit graphics that were both successful. These games were not only retro in terms of their gameplay but they were also retro in terms of their looks with actual sprite graphics. I was hoping that this would create a trend of brand new 8-bit & 16-bit sprite based games. My personal suggestion would be for companies like Nintendo, Capcom, Sega, Konami, and others to reserve a team of their staff to create new games with those 8-bit & 16-bit sprite graphics. Not only sequels to games in pre-existing franchises but new franchises as well. They would need to make sure that controls & gameplay are good and then charge $30 or $40 for them like in the NES/SNES/Genesis days. This would be a great way of making money between those bigger production developments while showing their fans they still give a crap about all sorts of games, not just those high production ones. Their older fans would appreciate it & it would help in breaking the graphics whore mentality of younger gamers, many of whom have already played older games on emulators & on the Virtual Console.
Nintendo is already relying on the VC a lot as they wait for more Wii U titles to be made, so this would be like that except they wouldn't be living only on past titles anymore. I hear all this talk about how love for retro games is all nostalgic. That's bullshit. Retro is in because it focuses on fun & simplicity, which had been forgotten over the years as production became more & more important, especially simplicity.
When you take the impossibility of a developer always topping the production quality of its last game and combine it with the unbelievably rising costs of being a gamer, that is what makes me think there will be another crash. Gaming has become so damn expensive with the prices of consoles being what they are today and on top of that all the DLC & online membership fees for PS Plus/Xbox Gold. Then there is the cost of craptastic peripherals like Kinect/PS Move and all those collector's editions of games. Where the hell are gamers supposed to have enough money to buy all this shit? Then you have dick moves that rightfully piss off gamers like on-disc DLC that Capcom did or making multiple versions of games like Capcom is also infamous for doing with its fighting games like MvC3 or SF4. One of the moves that pisses me off the most was buying a PSP exclusive only for it to be released on the PS2 (like Secret Agent Clank) or the PS3 (like the God of War games). Or more generally releasing collections of games that were just released a few years ago. In the case of GoW: Ghosts of Sparta it wasn't even a full year that it made its way on the GoW: Origins collection after being released on the PSP. It was a way of Sony to not only piss off its consumers, but also tell them there's no reason to have bought a PSP because the 1st party games will be available on the PS3. And for that reason along with the ridiculous price tag, I won't be buying a Vita.
When you combine the high prices, the dick moves, all the shovelware that you see especially for the DS/3DS & Wii (that would have never received the Nintendo Seal of Quality back in the old days), and the unrealistic expectations and add to them the 2 extra consoles (Ouya & Steambox) that will take away some market share, you have a situation where the abundance of choices can lead to games selling not enough copies to recover development costs. If this happens, the only games worth developing will be multi platform games, which can kill exclusives because they wouldn't be profitable enough to make. And if that happens, then there is no longer a purpose for multiple consoles. Nintendo's first party stuff does well, but we don't know if that's perpetual or not. If Nintendo could get decent 3rd party support, then I think it could weather a crash. I think the 3DS would probably be safe from a crash.
So there's a lot to consider if the industry is to avoid another crash. So far I don't see any concerted effort to avoid one even though the seeds for a 2nd crash have been sown. But the most important thing is to get back to basics (why developers started making games to begin with), which can fix the pricing of games, which then changes the profit structure (something that must happen), and lead to a happier gaming community.
DaBlaze: It is Bob, just with the pitch risen.
Link626: well, to be fair the Wii U actually made a profit. Quite a good one really.
black_bass: meltingthinker
AtomicSuplex14: why can't we just have bob talking in all the episodes? this ivan alter ego really gets on my nerves after a few minutes
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2/20/13 2:51am
The OverThinker responds to David Cage and Warren Spector
Smashmatt202: I'm not too familiar with David Cage, though I do know who he is. I also know who Warren Spector is, though I don't think I heard about this supposed quote everyone's talking about. It feels like after Epic Mickey, he's been getting a little on-edge, because he's received negative feedback for the first time in his gaming career (I think, he really didn't like hearing the bad stuff people were saying about Epic Mickey, even though I feel most of it was completely justified). Maybe part of me would sympathize with him if the sequel wasn't crap and BARELY fixed the problems of the first game at all... And then Junction Point got closed down, putting an end to so much wasted potential...
...But yeah, what's D.I.C.E. anyway? Regardless, yeah, not very classy ways of putting your thoughts, you two.
...But yeah, what's D.I.C.E. anyway? Regardless, yeah, not very classy ways of putting your thoughts, you two.
Lucerian: That quote from David Conenberg really blew my mind. I think I'll hav to look into some of his work(which says alot since I'm not really into movies). Also love that u kept the Demon's Crest track <3
werdman24: Never lose that drive.
Shanecooper: What's the point of growing up if we can't act like children from time to time?
Racecarlock: You want fuckin' mature games david and warren? Fine, make them. But don't insult me for enjoying what I enjoy. You guys should be better than that. Fuck you.
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2/11/13 10:43pm
caboose_-1 wrote on moviebob's wall.
Question for you Bob. Do you think that we're going through another video game crash? Companies like THQ are going under and the big 3 game companies are posting losses left and right. Not to mention that if the FPS bubble bursts it could bring down most of the industry with it. A YouTuber names RazorFist made an interesting vlog about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1M4OSMZFwU
1/24/13 12:37am
The OverThinker asks if The WiiU should be the last of it's kind.
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1/3/13 2:00am
The OverThinker counts down five "classic compilations" that someone needs to just MAKE already.
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Smashmatt202: Say I'm reminded of something... When are you going to do another "Who's your daddy?" episode? You did one about Mega Man, are you going to do it again?
Also, you had a number "4" when you said number 5. Fail.
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12/23/12 12:22am
With the recent events at Sandy Hook Elementary, TGO hits some very sensitive topics: do video games REALLY cause violence and why are games such a scapegoat for organizations?
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12/9/12 5:10am
The OverThinker asks if gaming culture's definition of "originality" is too narrow.
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12/4/12 7:08am
The OverThinker & Friends say goodbye to Nintendo Power.
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Whoa, 17 minutes for an "overbytes" episode? Eh... Also, was the announcement on TV? That's weird...
I like Bob's riffing at the beginning! He should do that more often! Oh wait, is that why this Overbytes is so long? Well, I think it's pretty sweet, an interesting new angle for Overbytes, especially since the Xbox One announcement is so easy to make fun of!
It's funny, at E3, Microsoft WAS buried by Sony's "shiny shit", particularly the teaser for Kingdom Hearts 3, and Nintendo's three, not one but THREE, Super Smash Bros. trailers! Oh my gosh, they were just trampled at E3. I feel like I should feel bad, but really, I can't help but laugh at them.
It's especially funny how they're talking about watching TV, when you already have a TV and don't NEED the Xbox One to watch TV. Like seriously, who's the genius behind this presentation? Who thought this would be good?
When they mentioned the television show, I thought of this one GameStop employee who wanted the Xbox One for that show, as well as other exclusives (that Microsoft only alluded to but not really mentioned), and wants it DESPITE all the bullshit you have to put up with to own an Xbox One... It baffles me that anyone would be willing to put up with all that...
It's funny how Bob riffs on Steven Spielberg, even though I KNOW Bob thinks quite fondly of a lot of his movies. Still doesn't make the joke any less funny. Yeah, didn't he make game once? Like, for the Wii? What was it called again? Well, goes to show you just how groundbreaking a game can be with a moviemaker behind it.
BTW, I realize I'm late to the party by watching this video. I don't care. Microsoft and the Xbox One have only gotten worse since this announcement.
Since you ended on playing Super Mario Bros. 2, what do you think of Super Mario 3D World and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (which has that old-fashion "pluck and chuck" gameplay added to it)?
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